.308 Rifel / PTR-91?

[wareagle]

Guys:

I want to add a sub-$1000 .308 semi-auto carbine to my collection. I've been looking at the AR10 (don't really want another AR), SA M1a SOCOM (cannot justify the price tag, and various military rebuilds (FAL, L1A1, CETME, G3). Of all the models, the PTR-91 seems the most intriguing. Does anyone have any knowledge or thoughts about any of these models? Any other recommendations.

[Guest gcrookston]

The company that makes them uses original HK tooling. Although I've never owned one, I've shot and handled several and find them on par with an HK91 (of which I've owned many). In fact, the first one I ever shot was a day I had my 91 at the range. We compared rifles side-by-side and the other shooter and myself were hard pressed to figure out how the extra $1,000 in my 91 could be justified.

[creeky]

I have heard many good things about them.

You can find more talk about them on the HKpro boards, under the "Clones" section.

I would like to own one myself one day.

-gcrookstone... I saw your "family" picture on the board. Couldn't

help but notice the M1A, and Hks in there. Cool!

[Guest gcrookston]

-gcrookstone... I saw your "family" picture on the board. Couldn't

help but notice the M1A, and Hks in there. Cool!

I've been an HK nut for a long time. I bought that 93 new in 1982, and have owned probably a dozen others over the years, without ever finding one more accurate than that first one. But that new sig 556 in the picture is turning out to be the 93's equal.

I tried several times to accurize a 91, but never could get one below 1.25MOA. The stresses of the roller/block on the 91 receiver causes it to flex with 7.62, but this is not the case with a 93 in 5.56, so "bolt ons" like a Psg1 trigger pack can quickly put a good 93 down to subMOA. The only real solution for a 91 is to weld the MSG90 reinforcing rails to the receiver-- something I'm not inclined to do.

In terms of a battle rifle, I think the G3 (HK91), is superior to the M14 (M1a), but when it comes to pinpoint accuracy you can throw a lot less money at an M1a and have have a real tack driver.

[creeky]

I've been an HK nut for a long time.

I like the H&Ks as well, but the prices have always kept me away. If it

wasn't for the deal I got I wouldn't even have the USPc I got. Have thought about the Vector clones though. (In the 53, 5.56) Always thought it would be nice to have one in a SBR form.

Had thought many times of the G3 clones, but have always been a little scared of throwing the money down and running into problems.

As my kids are getting a little order, money is starting to get a little freed up, I'm begining to look at the Hk rifles more and more.

In terms of a battle rifle, I think the G3 (HK91), is superior to the M14 (M1a), but when it comes to pinpoint accuracy you can throw a lot less money at an M1a and have have a real tack driver.

You're not the first person I have heard say that. The fact that there are so

many G3s out and running about in the world has to say a lot about them.

[Guest gcrookston]

I've seen some problems with the Vectors, something I've not seen with the PTR91 (things like missaligned sight blocks and gas ports, poorly finished bolts and bolt carriers that cam up, etc). My knowledge of HKs ends with the steel rifles. I've no interest in the UMP and the other plastics. And I'm not into clones, either, but I have found only good to say about the PTR and have been watching and waiting for them to introduce a Psg1 type clone or even come out with a 93 clone.

I've shot a couple of SBR'd 33's and an SBR G3, Cool factor is way high on those, but like the Krink, they are a whole bunch of flash and not much good beyond 25 feet. For me, the only SBR I'd be interested in would be an MP5, and SW guns don't fit my bill (besides, I had it out with Todd about 10 years ago on a POS he sold me when I had my Fleming 3 cal registered sear).

[Guest 2HOW]

I like the saigas, lot of bang for the buck and you cant beat the operating system .I plan on getting a .308 and a 20 ga.

[Guest tbone]

For what its worth, I had a CETME once upon a time. It was accurate for a battle rifle, very rugged. It was a lot of fun while I had it. No problems what so ever.

[towerclimber37]

well..I've got an stg58 parts kit (my wife's OTHER rifle, when I get it built).

Her other one is my brother's but she claimed it..I now have to find the funds to buy it. an SA51 upper with an imbel lower.

I have personally seen her shoot a shotgun shell off a target frame at 250 yards...repeatedly. (she was bored with the shoot and see targets)...how's that for subMOA accuracy?

[Guest m4coyote]

I really love the H&K roller block style rifles, and have owned several 91's and 93's. I wish that I still had them, but sold them to invest in some river property about 10 years ago.

There are pluses and minuses to the H&K 91 & 93 series rifles. Mine were uber dependable, but would beat the heck out of brass. If you intend to reload, then an expensive port buffer is in your future. The stock triggers are not that great, but several options exist. The PSG1 trigger pack, or a Williams modification will definitely do the trick. My 91 never gave me more than a 1.5 inch group at 100 yds. The H&K claw lock optics mount is very sturdy, and always maintains a good zero, but it also is hard on the gun's finish. It will remove the paint around the mounting pads if removed and re-installed very often. Parts for these H&K rifles are becoming ever harder to find, and they are also quite expensive.

A short while ago, I was in the same quandary about which semi auto 7.62 X 51 rifle to purchase. I had grown somewhat bored with my .223 ARs, and had a real hankering for a .308, so my research led me to the DPMS AP4.

I found one at a gun show a couple of months ago, and picked up a brand new one for less than $1000.00. It came in a hard case with two mags, cleaning kit, and a sling. I took it out of the case, stripped it down, cleaned it, re-lubed it, and used some Leupold high, matte, quick release rings to mount a Leupold 4.5-14 on the rail. After a quick sight in at 100 yards, it shot a 3 shot group less than 3/4" with Federal 168 grain boat tail hollow point match ammunition.

I intend to replace the service grade trigger with one of the many easily obtainable target grade units available. I just have not made up my mind which one to get just yet. The factory collapsible stock is also going to be replaced with something more befitting of this rifles accuracy. All in all, I am extremely pleased with the AP4, and never really dreamed that it would deliver this performance for the price paid.

[R1100R]

I also own a DPMS AP4 and love it. Mine was a little over $1000.00 with taxes and TCIS.

I am one of the few people that owned a CETME by century that did not have any problem. I traded it once I got the AP4. But I had a lot of fun with the CETME it would group 2" to 3 "with iron sights.