Houston TX turns off Red Light Cameras!

[aquaman67]

Red-Light Cameras Shut Off Monday - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

We need to get off the couch and get this done in Tennessee!

Who's with me?

[Garufa]

That requires a citizenry that is sick and tired of BS and will stand up to get things changed. TN is not that kind of place I hate to say.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

They never should have been allowed, but sometimes people don't pay attention to what their elected

officials do. It's a good example of "pay attention" and hold them accountable.

Maybe some day.

I'll bet you some good cops lost their jobs by having those cameras installed.

[DaveTN]

With the lawsuit references it appears the city has a contract; the vote does not change that. The citizens could end up paying for the rest of that contract instead of the violators. Depending on how this goes it might stop other cities from entering into these kinds of contracts.

Murfreesboro uses them; we had no say in it.

I’m not sure that I am against that kind of revenue generation as long as everyone understands that what it is. This is not about safety. A big flashing sign saying “CAMERAS IN USE†would be about safety.

When Murfreesboro first started using them they said they would be placed at intersections with high accident rates. One of those intersections is S. Church and Middle TN Blvd. I pass through that intersection at least twice a day and in 11 years I have never seen an accident there… not one.

The removal of those cameras would result in that money coming from somewhere else. Property taxes, Gas tax, license plates…. Etc.

[vontar]

I am 100 percent against the cameras the way they are used.

I have seen the cameras malfunction here in Oak Ridge.

I have been out in the middle of the night with no traffic and I have seen the cameras just flashing about every 5 seconds with Nothing in the intersection.

I know a person is suppose to review all the pictures before a ticket gets sent. I would LOVE to see a Review Board of this process and I would love to see the true number of malfunctions and other times the camera goes off when it is not a violation when they determine they need to toss out a picture.

BTW, The contracts many cities sign with the camera companies are written in such a way that the camera companies are expected to get X number or dare I say a Quota number of tickets per day. In some cases in some cities when the tickets dropped below that number the camera companies hit the cities over the head with the contract and raised the rate at which they charged the cities and or moved the cameras.

I will see if I can dig up some of the information I used to have on this topic. I had a hard drive fail and lost some of it, but I know it is still on Youtube. I believe most of what I am referring to is in AZ.

What gets me probably the most upset about the camera's is they keep the Red Light timing screwed up at those intersections.

They have very short yellows. In short they do not give a person property time to make a good judgement call whether or not to continue to stop if you are at a certain point even if you are at the speed limit. You then have to decide hit brakes or continue and get a ticket. It is a trap in most places that you can not fight.

Places a camera is going to be set, their should be a REQUIRED TIME for YELLOW LIGHT, probably 3 seconds at least. I know places in Oak Ridge are less.

BTW, no matter what, if you get a ticket, you have to pay, even if believe it is not yours. Lets say it is a speed related ticket and there are 2 cars in the photo and you believe it is the other car not yours. You still have to pay court costs to fight it. You still lose(money) even if you win.

You just can't fight a camera ticket even if you are right and can prove it, you lose more money.

Here is an example I got a Toll road ticket from a private company in Colorado in the mail recently. I have never been to Colorado. It was a photo camera that took it and they made the mistake. I believe I have it fixed over the phone. However had that been a traffic ticket mistake I would have to prove it in court. Which would cost me a hell of a lot more then to just pay it.

Edited November 14, 2010 by vontar

[DaveTN]

They have very short yellows.

The timing of traffic lights is regulated by the state, usually based on speed limits and traffic flow. If yellow light times were reduced to increase the number of tickets; that would be very easy to prove. If a city allowed the “Short Cycling†of traffic lights I believe that besides putting the public at risk and exposing the city to a tremendous lawsuit; they would be committing a criminal act. I have seen this claim on the internet before but have never seen anything to support it. Has there ever been any documentation of it happening anywhere?

[kb4ns]

Places a camera is going to be set, their should be a REQUIRED TIME for YELLOW LIGHT, probably 3 seconds at least. I know places in Oak Ridge are less.

If you know that to be the case, you might want to start making some phone calls.

T.C.A. 55-8-110(a)(8)

Whenever in this state three-light traffic-control signals are used displaying successively green, yellow, and red lights for the direction of motorists and pedestrians, the minimum time exposure of the yellow light shall be three (3) seconds. Any state agency or any political subdivision of the state that installs, owns, operates, or maintains any such traffic-control signal light shall set or cause to be set the timing-control device for the signal light in compliance with this subdivision (a)(8). No state agency or any political subdivision of the state that installs, owns, operates, or maintains a traffic-control signal light in an intersection that employs a surveillance camera for the enforcement or monitoring of traffic violations shall reduce the time exposure of the yellow light at the intersection with the intended purpose of increasing the number of traffic violations.

[vontar]

Thank you, I know I searched for something like that in the past and never found it, I wonder if that has been updated since I last searched. I have not looked in about a year. I know the last time I searched I could not find a law that required a min time for yellow lights. Now I have something to back my complaints with. Thanks.

I know I have directly complained to the city several times, I know recently the light I have been complaining about has not been as much of a problem as it used to be. I have raised allot of complaints on it, even with the mayor.

Edited November 14, 2010 by vontar

[Guest rockbottom12]

everytime i see the camera and it is yellow i SLAM my brakes on. as do many cause i cannot afford a ticket. I know it is more dangerous than running it but you know it is about safety right? the fat wad of cash generate off of this is really about safety? right.?

[strickj]

They have very short yellows. In short they do not give a person property time to make a good judgement call whether or not to continue to stop if you are at a certain point even if you are at the speed limit. You then have to decide hit brakes or continue and get a ticket. It is a trap in most places that you can not fight.

Places a camera is going to be set, their should be a REQUIRED TIME for YELLOW LIGHT, probably 3 seconds at least. I know places in Oak Ridge are less.

BTW, no matter what, if you get a ticket, you have to pay, even if believe it is not yours. Lets say it is a speed related ticket and there are 2 cars in the photo and you believe it is the other car not yours. You still have to pay court costs to fight it. You still lose(money) even if you win.

You just can't fight a camera ticket even if you are right and can prove it, you lose more money.

Here is an example I got a Toll road ticket from a private company in Colorado in the mail recently. I have never been to Colorado. It was a photo camera that took it and they made the mistake. I believe I have it fixed over the phone. However had that been a traffic ticket mistake I would have to prove it in court. Which would cost me a hell of a lot more then to just pay it.

There are two answers to the "the yellows are now shorter" complaints.

One is the the city intentionally changed the yellow time to make more money.

The other is that the times were always miscalibrated but no on paid any attention to them until the cameras were installed.

everytime i see the camera and it is yellow i SLAM my brakes on. as do many cause i cannot afford a ticket. I know it is more dangerous than running it but you know it is about safety right? the fat wad of cash generate off of this is really about safety? right.?

Why? You will not get a ticket for running a yellow light. Your tires have to be on the line when they're red.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Yup, he's right, you only get ticketed if you CROSS the white line after light turns red.

You're safe if you run a yellow light but once your front wheels cross the white line AFTER red light, you're ticketed.

[gnmwilliams]

Yup, he's right, you only get ticketed if you CROSS the white line after light turns red.

You're safe if you run a yellow light but once your front wheels cross the white line AFTER red light, you're ticketed.

That's how it's supossed to work. However, I have personally seen a friend's ticket photo where the pic was snapped while both the yellow and red were lit. He got it thrown out but how many other times has this happened and someone not noticed? Sure it was probably a miscalibration but if it can happen once it can happen twice.

[vontar]

That's how it's supossed to work. However, I have personally seen a friend's ticket photo where the pic was snapped while both the yellow and red were lit. He got it thrown out but how many other times has this happened and someone not noticed? Sure it was probably a miscalibration but if it can happen once it can happen twice.

So I assume your friend had to go to court to get this tossed out. Did the court also toss out court costs? I think in a case like this the court should charge the Camera Company Court cost for causing the case to start with since it cost valuable time.

Also it probably cost your friend a day of work to fight this, he should be able to get something out of it from the camera company as well.

In the end he would be luck if he didn't' have to pay the court. Please try to find out if he had to pay any court costs.

[1gewehr]

Most places that have the cameras like to claim it's for 'safety'. The reality is that in most places where they show a decrease in accidents that occur within the intersection, they also have an INCREASE in accidents that occur BEFORE the intersection. As posted above, the light turns yellow, and someone SLAMS on their brakes and gets rear-ended.

The biggest issue I have with the cameras has to do with who gets the ticket. You cannot ticket a car. It is an inanimate object with no inherent liability. You can only ticket the driver. With the camera systems in place, they cannot prove who the driver is. If I was not driving the car, why should I get a ticket?

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Get ready red bank because I saw where yalls new mayor is going to turn off yalls cameras to.

[DaveTN]

The biggest issue I have with the cameras has to do with who gets the ticket. You cannot ticket a car. It is an inanimate object with no inherent liability. You can only ticket the driver. With the camera systems in place, they cannot prove who the driver is. If I was not driving the car, why should I get a ticket?

I also wondered how they could do that without the option of a court trial or being able to face your accusers. I guess since it doesn’t go against your license they justify it the same way they do a parking ticket?

[gnmwilliams]

So I assume your friend had to go to court to get this tossed out. Did the court also toss out court costs? I think in a case like this the court should charge the Camera Company Court cost for causing the case to start with since it cost valuable time.

Also it probably cost your friend a day of work to fight this, he should be able to get something out of it from the camera company as well.

In the end he would be luck if he didn't' have to pay the court. Please try to find out if he had to pay any court costs.

Good point there cause he did have to pay fees and it was going to be too much trouble to try to avoid them. He wasn't employed at the time cause he's a slacker so that wasn't a factor! Hey that kinda rhymes. But I see whatcha mean.

[DaveTN]

I have personally seen a friend's ticket photo where the pic was snapped while both the yellow and red were lit. He got it thrown out but how many other times has this happened and someone not noticed? Sure it was probably a miscalibration but if it can happen once it can happen twice.

Good point there cause he did have to pay fees and it was going to be too much trouble to try to avoid them. He wasn't employed at the time cause he's a slacker so that wasn't a factor! Hey that kinda rhymes. But I see whatcha mean.

You don’t have to pay court cost if you get a ticket “Thrown Out”. If he had to pay court costs it was because he was convicted or he made a plea agreement.

[vontar]

I was trying to find something about court costs and if it gets thrown out.

However I found this interesting article on how to beat a photo radar camera ticket in AZ.

How they trick people into signing away their rights by mailing the tickets to people and asking people to sign and return instead of serving the papers as the law requires at least in AZ.

Photo Radar - Red Light Camera

http://www.newswithviews.com/guest_opinion/guest77.htm

In 2001 the city of Mesa, Ariz. also lengthened the time for yellow lights by one second. That action is credited with a permanent safety improvement and a reduction of 73 percent in the number of citations issued by red light cameras. That caused a major decline in revenue, which the city has taken steps to improve, according to a recent report in the Arizona Republic.

The speed limit on most roads in Mesa has been lowered, and speeding fines are now higher. Mesa has speed cameras and a combination of red light cameras that also catch speeders. The lower speed limits are expected to improve revenue for the city, according to the Arizona Republic.

Edited November 18, 2010 by vontar

[vontar]

Found what I was looking for.

Don't pay to much attention to the Youtube video name and the ad for photoblocker.

This video gets real interesting just before the 2 minute mark. Pay attention to what happened to the contracts with the red light company when the city For safety increased YELLOW lights. Due to the contract the private company, they hit the city over the head with it.

[gnmwilliams]

You don’t have to pay court cost if you get a ticket “Thrown Out”. If he had to pay court costs it was because he was convicted or he made a plea agreement.

Ok, after getting him to clarify, here's the real story. He sent in the money for the ticket before he realized he could get it thrown out. It was the process of getting it thrown out that his lazy butt couldn't handle. So I stand corrected and guilty of providing erronious examples. My bad! Always check your facts!