Posted Businesses: Individual and Corporate Responsibility for Safety

[Guest RevScottie]

I thought I would start this new thread based on some of the comments in the Buffalo Wild Wings thread.

If a business is going to post what responsibility does it have in providing a safe environment for its patrons? Banks used to provide an armed security guard inside the lobby at most locations. Now I rarely see a guard and some banks now post thus preventing law abiding permit holders from even bringing their weapons inside. Using the drive thru isn’t always an option because many banks limit business transactions to the lobby.

What about those who may be specific targets of crime. I have several friends in law enforcement. If they are involved in an on duty shooting they have to give up their weapon. Now even with a legal HCP they are prevented from protecting themselves in many businesses. What happens when the buddy of the guy they shot comes looking for them at the mall?

Yes I have heard all of the arguments about just shopping and banking online etc but most of those are not very valid in the real world.

My question is what can be done about this situation? Do other states handle this better than TN?

[Guest peacexxl]

If the police don't even have a duty to protect us, I serioiusly doubt that private enterprise is going to be held responsible. There is always the civil suit afterwards but legally, I doubt customer saftey is even a blip on their radar.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

If the police don't even have a duty to protect us, I serioiusly doubt that private enterprise is going to be held responsible. There is always the civil suit afterwards but legally, I doubt customer saftey is even a blip on their radar.

DING DING DING DING! We have a winner. The only way to hold these people accountable is to sue after the fact.

[Oh Shoot]

Apparently, there is simply no precedent.

I guess we'll have to have another Ben and Nikki Goeser type tragedy, where the reason one couldn't carry to protect them and theirs was due to the business posting, rather than TN law forbidding it. Unfortunately, Nikki apparently couldn't sue the State to address her loss, but surely she could have sued the establishment itself, had it been after the change in the law and they were posted.

- OS

[Guest AGT822]

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.....

It's the only answer.

I know it's not the answer most people want to hear because gun owners are usually people of principle and that doesn't speak to the problem itself... but it's a solution and it's one I am willing to settle for.

With Buffalo Wild Wild, you are talking about a place you can easily avoid. You have no business there unless you really like their food. And if that's the case, then disarm and bon apetit.. but in the scenario above, a bank with no drive through and no armed guard, well I guess you're SOL. So once again, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

But I've got to be honest, outside of NYC, I've never seen a bank with no drive-thru. And I probably wouldn't do my banking at one. Like I said, I know this doesn't speak to the core principle, but sometimes you have to forget about principle and do what's right for you. Man's law.

The other option is move to Vermont.

[Fallguy]

Apparently, there is simply no precedent.

I guess we'll have to have another Ben and Nikki Goeser type tragedy, where the reason one couldn't carry to protect them and theirs was due to the business posting, rather than TN law forbidding it. Unfortunately, Nikki apparently couldn't sue the State to address her loss, but surely she could have sued the establishment itself, had it been after the change in the law and they were posted.

- OS

Had the law been different and the that place posted, IMO the only argument Nikki could have sued on is that she did warn them of a potential danger.

As I said in the other thread. A bussines does have a legal duty to take reasoanble steps to protect you from a known or should have been known threat. But not from a general threat......or the just the everyday danger of living on this planet.

If a comet randomly falls out of the sky and hits you, I don't think you'd prevail because there is not much of a way the business could have known about that threat.

Now if a place is robbed at gunpoint every Friday at 3:00pm for the last 5 weeks and the robber always shoots one patron and the business has done nothing to inform and/or protect their patrons, I'd say you'd have a real good case in a civil suit.

[Guest RevScottie]

As I said in the other thread. A bussines does have a legal duty to take reasoanble steps to protect you from a known or should have been known threat. But not from a general threat......or the just the everyday danger of living on this planet.

Multiple businesses in Chattanooga are robbed at gun point on a weekly basis so why shouldn't it be expected and steps taken to prevent it?

[Fallguy]

Multiple businesses in Chattanooga are robbed at gun point on a weekly basis so why shouldn't it be expected and steps taken to prevent it?

What should they do to prevent themselves from being robbed? I'm sure they would do it if they could. Allowing you to go armed in there is not going to prevent a robbery.

In my non-legal and under informed opinion....that fact would still constitute a general threat and not any specific threat to any location. Especially if it is not the same place over and over.

[DaveTN]

My question is what can be done about this situation?

You can give the businesses absolute immunity from a lawsuit. I’m not talking about recourse like we have; I’m talking immunity from a suit even being filed. With the legislature being made up of so many lawyers, I just don't see that happening. I don’t see the lawyers giving up the deep pockets.

Where do your Police friends have to go that puts their lives at risk? As a cop the only place I was required to disarm was when I entered the jail with a prisoner. If the business is posted; don’t go in if that is a concern to you.

Tennessee does not recognize the 2nd amendment as an individual right. If they did it would not be a crime for a citizen to carry a loaded gun. They can’t make private businesses allow carry when they don’t allow the general public to do it.

[Fallguy]

Dang I hate it when Dave is right.....

[vontar]

I am not sure I can give a good answer and I am not sure suing after an event happens would be good either. I have read and agree with, I don't want my family looking down at me in a coffin saying at least he followed the rules, while the criminals just walked past the signs. (Tried my 12, then carried by six).

If at all possible, I am going to do business at a non posted business. My wife and I both try to do business when possible with local business' when possible.

When Lincolns opened in Oak Ridge, we went, then the Guns in Bars act passed and they posted, I have not been back, screw them. I didn't carry in before, I didn't even have my HCP at the time. Even if they where not posted, I most likely would be a drinking customer so I would not be armed now but since they posted I will not darken their door step.

Tonight my wife and I went out to eat. Spent about 40 bucks plus tip. I had about 3 beer, we had a nice meal and she drove home. I went unarmed as I knew I would be drinking.