Which .22 lr rifle will be the best teacher?

[Guest bubruins]

I've decided that I'm purchasing a .22lr target rifle with Christmas money here in a few months. My goal will be to have a reliable rifle that I can learn how to be a better shooter with. First and foremost, I understand that the rifle is not the only part of the equation. I need to learn to do my part. I am mostly interested in controlling trigger pull in rapid succession, shooting out to 100 yards, shooting from the prone position (either rifle will get a bipod). I've decided that for now I'm going to transplant my tasco 3-9x50 to whichever rifle I choose.

In the past I've mostly done plinking for fun because the rifles I have used in the past to teach myself shooting with were not very target shooting friendly (.22 single shot lever action - no scope, and a .22 high standard with extractor and cycling problems - has a new tasco 3-9x50 on it). I want to have a ~$220 rifle (before bipod) that will be reliable and will be a good platform to learn on.

The two rifles I've been most interested in lately are the Remington 597 and the Savage MKII with accutrigger. Below I'll list what what I think are the pros and cons of each rifle. What am I missing?

Remington 597 standard

-Pros: semi-automatic, 30 round magazine availability, scope mounts from high standard will fit so no scope rail or bases are required

-Cons: potential extractor problems, would require volquartsen hammer and extractor to get to MKII reliability and trigger pull,

Savage MKII standard with accutrigger

-Pros: 2.5-3lb trigger factory, reliable

-Cons: 10 round magazine capacity limit, would require scope mounts and scope bases

And yes, I have considered the 10-22. From everything I've read I think I would quickly want to modify it and it would become a money pit. I also like the feel of the Remington 597's factory stock and magazine release more than the 10-22. If you have another suggestion please let me know what it is.

The question is: Which one of these rifles will have the most potential to improve my target shooting?

[Mike]

I voted the savage. But would also recommend a CZ 452.

If you truly want to be a better shooter you should ditch the scope and learn to be a better shooter with irons. People tend to use optics as a crutch. Once you master iron sights then you can go for the scope. Everything you learn up to that point will transfer to any other rifle you ever shoot.

Savage MKII standard with accutrigger

-Pros: 2.5-3lb trigger factory, reliable

-Cons: 10 round magazine capacity limit, would require scope mounts and scope bases

Your cons list is actually a bunch of pluses on a rifle you intend to use to improve your shooting. By keeping a 5 or 10rd magazine it will teach you to make every shot count.

Good for you for wanting to improve! Some of my fondest shooting memories are with a single shot .22 with my granddad learning basic marksmanship.

Mike

Edited November 11, 2010 by Mike

[Guest kdud03]

i vote savage with accu trigger for bolt action an ruger 10-22 for semi auto. i also like the marlin model 60 which is the most accurate factory rifle i have ever fired. i hear good things about the cz but have no experience with it.

[Guest mds3d]

I voted the Savage, but my real opinion is that any decent bolt action is an answer. You can learn to fire them fairly rapidly, but the bolt forces you to think more about each trigger pull.

If you really want a semiautomatic, I would second any Marlin Model 60.

[peejman]

I voted the Savage, but my real opinion is that any decent bolt action is an answer. You can learn to fire them fairly rapidly, but the bolt forces you to think more about each trigger pull.

.

This. And get good with irons before adding glass.

[DaveTN]

I voted for the 597. For accuracy I don’t think anything in that price range will come close; mine was a tack driver right out of the box.

They do have a problem with jamming when new, but 1000 rounds through mine and it was fine.

I wouldn’t waste the money putting a trigger on a $200 rifle, the 597 doesn’t need one and if your accuracy comes down to the trigger; you will be ready to move on up.

The 597 is also closer to the size of a real rifle than many others in that price range. Most of them are sized for kids.

Bass Pro runs them on sale with a cheap scope for under $200.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[R1100R]

The Savage. But the CZ452 will run circles around it.

[graycrait]

Having shot many dozens of models and makes of .22 plinkers, owning many of them, built in the past 9 decades I would go with the Savage. Savage gets you a pretty good shooter with the ability to really test crazy ammo. Semi-autos don't action with just everything, bolt guns generally do. I've had a 597 and shot the Savage. I'm borrowing a friend's Savage to test some ammo out in a few weeks, one of those new ones with the black Boyd's stock. I just traded off a wonderful CZ 452 Ultra Lux. You are right about 10/22s, they can be a money pit. I currently have 4, 1 is stock. I buddy brought over his new to him vintage Remington 40X the other day and had just gotten back from CMP with a nice Kimber 82G. Here is what I traded the CZ for, 10/22 with hammer/sear work by me, stock is Hogue rubber overmolded with a Green Mountain Running Boar barrel and Millet multi dot Red Dot:

[bubbadavis]

The Savage. But the CZ452 will run circles around it.

Listen to Wayne.

You may never get to the point that the CZ is the limiting factor in your accuracy. Most of my guns are more accurate than I am.

[1gewehr]

I voted the savage. But would also recommend a CZ 452.

If you truly want to be a better shooter you should ditch the scope and learn to be a better shooter with irons. People tend to use optics as a crutch. Once you master iron sights then you can go for the scope. Everything you learn up to that point will transfer to any other rifle you ever shoot.

Your cons list is actually a bunch of pluses on a rifle you intend to use to improve your shooting. By keeping a 5 or 10rd magazine it will teach you to make every shot count.

Good for you for wanting to improve! Some of my fondest shooting memories are with a single shot .22 with my granddad learning basic marksmanship.

Mike

Ditto! Excellent points and absolutely true.

[Mason]

From my rimfire rifle experiance my vote almost always goes to Marlin. I have two model 60 .22 caliber rifles and a .22 WMR bolt action. The three Ruger 10-22's I own do not feed or shoot that great with any of the ammo I have tried. I have about eight rimfires at this time and the Marlins with the microgrooved barrels just shoot wonderful. Of the two rifles on your list I would go with the Savage if you have something aginst Marlin rifles. I am no expert but I do shoot alot of rimfire rifles because they do not break the bank as quickly as the centerfire rifles do.

[whj812]

Ive had my 597 since about 99 or so and its been a solid plinker. Ive had several thousand rounds through it and never had many problems. Most of the jamming problems Ive had have been with bad ammo I suspect. I love shooting CCI MiniMags through it. It seems to be a great ammo esp for the $

The Brick of Remington .22LR sucks... Thats what I have had the most problems out of.

[Guest bubruins]

Great insight so far guys. I think I am leaning towards the bolt action at this point. I hadn't considered a CZ452 yet because of price. The cheapest I've seen a CZ452 is $344 + transfer at Budsgunshop.com (for a full stock, not scout version). Extra CZ452 magazines also apparently cost about $35 each, the cost of two Savage MKII magazines. CZ scope rings cost $65 which would also be significantly more than rings for the MKII.

What I have considered is purchasing the Savage MKII FV (heavy barrel, accutrigger, included scope bases). The only downside to this is that it does not have iron sights. Would the trade off for a heavy barrel be worth the difference in price ($244 for the FV vs. $186 for the standard MKII with accutrigger - prices listed are from Buds) and the loss of iron sights?

I'm also wanting to have whichever gun I purchase for a long time. I'm afraid that I'll eventually regret not purchasing the target barrel but I may just be getting ahead of myself. Any thoughts on regretting a purchase of a "basic" model?

Edited November 11, 2010 by bubruins
added info about mkii fv

[Bubbatn]

I have the Savage MK II and I can tell you I love mine. It was my first rifle which I just bought back in the spring and I can say I couldn't be happier with my purchase. Mine doesn't have the accu-trigger on it, and it is just the base model, but I have put on some raised Leupold scope rings where I could still use the irons if I wanted, a Tasco 3-9 x 40 scope, and a wally world bi-pod and I have no problem getting 2" groups @ 50yds with cheap ammo(remington thunderbolts). And mine eats those remingtons no problem....I've put probably at least 1000-1500 rounds through it and 90% of that has been thunderbolts and i've had VERY few duds and really no issues whatsoever.

I don't really know anything about the 597, but I can tell you I don't think you would be dissapointed with the Savage.

[StPatrick]

I just ordered a CZ 452 Lux this morning, and my expectations are even higher after reading this thread. I'm really looking forward to putting it through its paces!

[I_Like_Pie]

You will save money in the long run if you heed everyone's advice and hold out till you can afford a good CZ452. You will not find a better shooting sub $1000 rimfire.

They really are that good.

[bigwakes]

+1 for iron sights first. As a kid I couldn't afford a scope and in the military it wasn't an option. I think I'm a better shooter for so much time spent on irons.

[DaveTN]

Great insight so far guys. I think I am leaning towards the bolt action at this point. I hadn't considered a CZ452 yet because of price. The cheapest I've seen a CZ452 is $344 + transfer at Budsgunshop.com (for a full stock, not scout version). Extra CZ452 magazines also apparently cost about $35 each, the cost of two Savage MKII magazines. CZ scope rings cost $65 which would also be significantly more than rings for the MKII.

Are $500 or “Sub $1000†rifles an option for you? Because if they are there are some really nice options without buying foreign.

What I have considered is purchasing the Savage MKII FV (heavy barrel, accutrigger, included scope bases). The only downside to this is that it does not have iron sights. Would the trade off for a heavy barrel be worth the difference in price ($244 for the FV vs. $186 for the standard MKII with accutrigger - prices listed are from Buds) and the loss of iron sights?

I don’t think I have ever seen a heavy barrel with sights. (Of course there are a lot of things I have not seen) Unless you are an amazing shooter you won’t be able to tell the difference in a regular barrel and a heavy barrel without using a scope. I personally would want a heavy barrel if I had that option. However I have no desire to shoot a rifle with iron sights; iron sights are for handguns.

I'm also wanting to have whichever gun I purchase for a long time. I'm afraid that I'll eventually regret not purchasing the target barrel but I may just be getting ahead of myself. Any thoughts on regretting a purchase of a "basic" model?

Thoughts on regretting? Don’t look back. Most of us go through guns like crazy. I have been through hundreds, there is no way I could have enjoyed shooting and collecting as much as I have if I thought I needed to keep everything I bought. If you are rich; it’s a different story. But obviously you are like most of us and aren’t rich; or it wouldn’t matter what you bought.

[Guest bubruins]

Yep. Not rich. That's why I'm asking which $200 rifle is better. I can have some upward flex there, but I can't go pick up a $500 .22 rifle or anything like that. I could probably get together $300, maybe even $350 but I would not be able to afford scope mounts for awhile when they cost $65+shipping for the CZ. Whichever rifle I get, it will inevitably get a scope. For right now I think my best option is still the Savage MKII but I'm going to keep my eyes open on gunbroker for $300 CZ's.

[Mike]

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/21729

351.00 with free shipping. 20.00 transfer at the outpost.

Don't buy scope mounts until you have mastered irons.

Shoot the piss out of it.

Mike

[Guest malbolja]

Any good quality bolt action with iron sights. Semiauto rimfires tend to become bullet hoses (in my hands at least). The CZ 452 is a thing of beauty if you can afford a little extra $. I am thrilled with mine (.17HM2).

I don't find a five or ten round magazine a hinderance on a .22. I have a couple of 30 round mags for my 10/22 and have never used them.

[Guest Big-A]

You can buy a used marlin model 60 and have money left over to go towards a nice bolt rifle.I paid 75 bucks for the last model 60 i bought.They shoot great for the money.Your right ruger is a money pit and ive had bad luck with all the ruger autos . AL

[Backon4]

I've got a 597, for $125 on sale it can't be beat in it's price range.

[Guest kerank]

I'll have to go along with some other responses, and recommend the Marlin Model 60. It's been around for a while for a reason. They tend to be very accurate, and very reliable. Practicing trigger control in rapid succession, you will need a semi-auto. I don't have any experience with the 597, but my 60 runs circles around my 10/22. With the 60 you don't have any mags to lose, and have a plenty high capacity of 14 in the tubular magazine.

I would say go to Academy, pick up the Marlin 60 for $137, and while you are there pick up the Nikon Prostaff Rimfire Classic 4x32 scope for $109 (nice crisp, clear glass for the money). The scope comes with rings, and lens caps. For around $250 you will have an accurate, reliable rifle-scope combo that should shoot under 1" @ 50yd groups with bulk .22 ammo! Find the ammo yours likes, and you might hang with the high priced bolt guns :-)

[Garufa]

If you truly want to learn the art of target shooting a semi-auto is not what you want.

Savage Mark II bolt action will not only provide you with excellent accuracy but also help teach the fundamentals of patience and discipline (while working the action). Constantly pulling the trigger on a semi will not teach you anything until the fundamentals are mastered.