POCKET CARRY

[ftncityfatboy]

Hello FtnCity Fatboy!! How in the world are you?? I saw your thread and I wanted to offer letting you shoot my Kel-Tec P32 and a Sig P238. I agree that Taurus has a great gun out there, and Smith & Wesson also released the Bodyguard 380, which has a laser on it. That's good since the sights on many of these guns are worthless. They are pretty much point and shoot guns, anyway. As a note, Kel-Tec released a 9-round magazine, which makes the P3AT a 9+1 gun. The magazine gives a man's hand a little more to hold on to. My husband HATES the trigger function on most of these pocket guns, because you have to pull it nearly all the way back before it engages. It's supposed to be a safety feature, but he didn't like the way it felt. He opted for the Sig Sauer P238 for that very reason. It feels and acts exactly like a 1911, and it has a manual safety on it as well as night sights. I think folks had problems with the earliest models, but we've had none with ours. But if you'd like to go somewhere to look at a great selection of these guns at some really good prices, I suggest going to the South Clinton Pawn Shop. I just bought an XDM-45 there, and wanted to buy more! They are not open on Tuesdays, but check them out sometime. Let me know the next time you're going to CCA, and I'll bring the toys. Take care, my friend!

Have to take you up on the Keltec P32. I shot your Sig P238 last time I saw you a CCA, YOU were the one that got me thinking about the sig THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! Seriously, the sig and your xdm-45 were both sweet shooting firearms. I will pm you next time I see I will get to go to CCA and maybe we can punch some paper together. Thanks, and as always - good to talk to with you!

[East_TN_Patriot]

I get pretty tired of all the silly "mouse caliber" comments from folks - especially when the comment comes from someone who then recommends the 9mm, which is regularly referred to as the 9 Mickey Mouse, but I digress. The evidence consistently shows that shot placement trumps caliber. Period. The way some folks talk, one would think that nobody ever died of a gunshot fired from a handgun for most of human history since police and civilians (and most world military forces) carried small calibers for most of the 20th century, especially the .32 ACP and the .380 ACP. I posted some data from a study of gun homicides in Chicago and it showed exactly what I am saying: higher calibers (larger than .38) were only very modestly more effective than smaller calibers as long as the shot hit the decedent in the head, neck, or chest. If the rounds struck anywhere else, the little difference that existed before was completely gone. As a former police firearms instructor, I am very comfortable carrying my Seecamp .32, my Bersa .380, or my Smith .38 revolver. Remember, a .380 in the pocket is far better than a .45 in the truck.

On that note, I have fired some of the little .380 handguns out there and they all seem to be reliable. My advice is to just head to the gun shop and look at different ones to see which you like best, which fits your hand best, which fits your pocket best, and which fits your budget best. I have heard good and bad about all of the .380 guns listed here, including the P238. Seecamp makes the smallest .380 around, but it will cost you a pretty penny and they are pretty tough to get since the factory makes each by hand and they have a pretty long waiting list.

[daddyo]

[Oh Shoot]

I get pretty tired of all the silly "mouse caliber" comments from folks - especially when the comment comes from someone who then recommends the 9mm, which is regularly referred to as the 9 Mickey Mouse, but I digress....

Really.

Actually, I think East_TN_Patriot is probably right, any caliber at all will do.

I have seen the light and think I'll change to one of these for the convenience, since nobody wants to get shot with anything, especially those crack addicts.

- OS

[Guest Ggun]

I want one! OWB all the way!

[daddyo]

Really.

Actually, I think East_TN_Patriot is probably right, any caliber at all will do.

I have seen the light and think I'll change to one of these for the convenience, since nobody wants to get shot with anything, especially those crack addicts.

- OS

That's the most hilarious thing I've read all day...

[flyanything]

Two different guns. What's in the holster? Revolver?

That is a little rediculous for a carry weapon. If someone shot me with that I'd have to slap them if it didn't kill me.

Edited November 11, 2010 by flyanything

[TGO David]

Despite all the posturing in this thread who feel that anything less than a 9mm is incapable of inflicting more than a minor bruise, the fact remains that the best pocket gun is the one that you'll actually carry with you. If a .380 ACP is light enough for you to carry comfortably, is small enough to fit your pocket, purse, knickers, or whatever, then that is the right gun for you.

I'd welcome some of the folks who feel that a .32 ACP is too small to do any good to stand in front of one and let the operator empty the magazine into them. If they are able to just walk it off and avoid a trip to the hospital, I'll eat my hat.

[HOLEPUNCHER]

I am not "allowed" to carry at work. I like the Ruger lcp. It carry's well in leather, http://www.recluseholster.com/holster, no imprinting and made with safety in mine. Would love to carry larger , but not prudent.

[JReedEsq]

I agree with the earlier posting that shot placement is far more important than caliber. Unfortunately, shot placement is why I recently traded away my LCP. It was completely reliable and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that I might own another. Unfortunately, however, I couldn't shoot it anywhere near as well as my Glock 26. It could be that I spend a lot of time practicing with my other Glocks, but the G26 seems to occupy a real sweet spot between shootability and concealibility. With cargo pants it will pocket carry just fine.

[ftncityfatboy]

thanks for all the suggestions. I have been carrying my Taurus 851 .38 special with a DeSantis Nemisis Holster in the front pocket. I carries extremely well and is very comfortable. I hardly notice its there and depending on my position of stance, does not print (sometimes when squatting it will print). So, looks like I don't get to buy another peestal right now. Thanks for all the help.

[TGO David]

the G26 seems to occupy a real sweet spot between shootability and concealibility. With cargo pants it will pocket carry just fine.

Quite true. I've been carrying my G26 in an A-Holster pocket rig for the past week. Love it.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Despite all the posturing in this thread who feel that anything less than a 9mm is incapable of inflicting more than a minor bruise, the fact remains that the best pocket gun is the one that you'll actually carry with you. If a .380 ACP is light enough for you to carry comfortably, is small enough to fit your pocket, purse, knickers, or whatever, then that is the right gun for you.

I'd welcome some of the folks who feel that a .32 ACP is too small to do any good to stand in front of one and let the operator empty the magazine into them. If they are able to just walk it off and avoid a trip to the hospital, I'll eat my hat.

Exactly. Plenty of folks are killed every year with a .22, .32, or a .380. Is a full-size handgun in .40 or .45 better for self-defense? Clearly it is, otherwise law enforcement wouldn't use them - although studies of shootings by the New York Police Department showed no significant difference in the characteristics of police shootings after they switched to 9mm Glocks from .38 revolvers including number of rounds fired, hit ratio, or increases in shooting deaths. However, for concealed carry, large frame handguns are typically not practical. Also, when you consider the very low likelihood that a civilian will need a firearm for self-defense and the conditions under which that shooting will be taking place - within arm's reach of the attacker - pretty much any reliable firearm that you have readily at hand will do. If you put a .32 ACP into the torso of the attacker, they will very likely stop their attack. If one thinks that shooting someone with any handgun round will suddenly cause them to fly backward through the air, they need to stop watching movies for their facts. "Knockdown power" is a myth. "Stopping power" is a myth. Proper shot placement is not. I figure having been a police firearms instructor qualifies me to know a little bit about the topic, so folks can roll their eyes all they want. Facts are facts, and the facts show that caliber is a very small factor in the outcome of a shooting incident.

[JReedEsq]

Exactly. Plenty of folks are killed every year with a .22, .32, or a .380. Is a full-size handgun in .40 or .45 better for self-defense? Clearly it is, otherwise law enforcement wouldn't use them - although studies of shootings by the New York Police Department showed no significant difference in the characteristics of police shootings after they switched to 9mm Glocks from .38 revolvers including number of rounds fired, hit ratio, or increases in shooting deaths. However, for concealed carry, large frame handguns are typically not practical. Also, when you consider the very low likelihood that a civilian will need a firearm for self-defense and the conditions under which that shooting will be taking place - within arm's reach of the attacker - pretty much any reliable firearm that you have readily at hand will do. If you put a .32 ACP into the torso of the attacker, they will very likely stop their attack. If one thinks that shooting someone with any handgun round will suddenly cause them to fly backward through the air, they need to stop watching movies for their facts. "Knockdown power" is a myth. "Stopping power" is a myth. Proper shot placement is not. I figure having been a police firearms instructor qualifies me to know a little bit about the topic, so folks can roll their eyes all they want. Facts are facts, and the facts show that caliber is a very small factor in the outcome of a shooting incident.

Again, I agree that shot placement far outweighs caliber. but we shouldn't overlook the fact that most people shoot compact and full-size guns a lot more accurately than .38 snubbies and sub-compact pocket pistols.

[knoxrocks222]

i pocket carry when not at work.....i carry a keltec p3At in a blackhawk pocket holster, i forget i have it somtimes and it dosent print at all, just looks like a big phone in my pocket

[daddyo]

I will never understand why some of you take the caliber discussion soooooo personally.

[Guest Law of Thirds]

Because everyone wants to think that they've made the right (and only) choice when it comes to self defense. Personally, I won't carry a .25 ACP or rimfires (higher statistical chance of a misfire/dud), and I prefer a .38, .357 or .45, but I'd be comfortable with a .32 if it's all I can conceal.

As for pocket carry: Your taurus is a good answer, if it (and you) can tolerate +p loads, I suggest taking a look at Buffalo Bore's 158g SWCHP +p loading. Last time I chrono'd it, no round was moving slower than 1000 fps out of a 642 1 7/8" barrel (5 rounds tested). That's quite respectable out of a pocket gun.

[leroy]

.... Plenty of folks are killed every year with a .22, .32, or a .380. Is a full-size handgun in .40 or .45 better for self-defense? Clearly it is, otherwise law enforcement wouldn't use them ..... "Knockdown power" is a myth. "Stopping power" is a myth. Proper shot placement is not. I figure having been a police firearms instructor qualifies me to know a little bit about the topic, so folks can roll their eyes all they want. Facts are facts, and the facts show that caliber is a very small factor in the outcome of a shooting incident. .....

ET's observation here is as great (...and as true...) a pronouncement that has ever been made about self defense and guns (...no matter whether shotgun, rifle, or handgun...). He is exactly right. All calibers will kill ya, and shot placement trumps everything else. I say folks should pick out what they are comfortable with and what fits their method of carry, wear it out practicing with it, and pray daily that you are not called on to use it; just be ready if you are.

As others have consistently said in this forum, shot placement plus having your gun with ya when ya need it most are the two most important pieces of "going armed" and defending yourself and possibly others.

Keep up the good work!

Leroy

[Guest 44M]

the best pocket carry gun I ever had, no holster needed and planty of power in .38 special... not heavier than a pack of cigaretes...

Db

[Coastie]

... I prefer a .38, .357 or .45, ...

... As others have consistently said in this forum, shot placement plus having your gun with ya when ya need it most are the two most important pieces of "going armed" and defending yourself and possibly others. ...

I agree that a .38, .357, .45, 9 mm or .380 would be better knock down and I have an Army issue .45 but since the military or department is not providing ammo, I like .22 LR because of the cost of ammo. I need lots of practice! I may get something bigger when I get my marksmanship up.

[gregintenn]

Despite all the posturing in this thread who feel that anything less than a 9mm is incapable of inflicting more than a minor bruise, the fact remains that the best pocket gun is the one that you'll actually carry with you. If a .380 ACP is light enough for you to carry comfortably, is small enough to fit your pocket, purse, knickers, or whatever, then that is the right gun for you.

I'd welcome some of the folks who feel that a .32 ACP is too small to do any good to stand in front of one and let the operator empty the magazine into them. If they are able to just walk it off and avoid a trip to the hospital, I'll eat my hat.

Amen! I can't prove it, but I've heard that the lowly 22 LR is responsible for taking more human lives than any other caliber.

[daddyo]

Amen! I can't prove it, but I've heard that the lowly 22 LR is responsible for taking more human lives than any other caliber.

And I heard that's because more folks own firearms chambered in .22 lr than any other caliber.

[flyanything]

Boy this caliber discussion sure gets personal. Over and over again.

[Guest rsgillmd]

+1 to those that suggested Kahr PM9. That is what a friend at work recommended for me. I ended up going with the PM40 because I have a Sig P229 in .40 caliber. Shot 100 rounds through it today -- very easy to carry, conceal, and shoot. When I bought it last week I bought a Blackhawk IWB clip on type holster. With a gun this light, no feeding a holster through a belt, or any special gun belt required. Can't beat that.

As others have said, what you carry with you is more important than what is at home. That is what pushed me for the Kahr. At least now I'm more likely to have a shot at defending myself in a bad situation.

[DAdams]

My lineup in pocket carry is this:

1) S&W M&P 340 Revolver .38 spl plus P in a Mika Roundcut pocket holster

2) Seecamp .380 in a DeSantis Nemesis Pocket holster. Expensive but a great investment. I would replace this with an Ruger LCP for a good quality decent price alternative.

3) Kahr PM9 in a DeSantis Nemesis Holster

4) S&W 642 Revolver, Mika Roundcut Pocket Holster.

Revolvers both have Crimson Trace laser grips, model 405.

One of these three formats covers about any pocket carry contingency I encounter from deep pocket cargo pants and shorts to black tie extra covert with the Seecamp.

Edited November 28, 2010 by DAdams