I'm a Denier!

[Mark@Sea]

[Guest mustangdave]

This ROCKS...I've got to post this else where

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Great video.

[Guest clsutton21]

Wow! How ignorant.

[Mark@Sea]

I'll see your ignorance and raise you 31,000 scientists.

Ante up.

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”

Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists,” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

“After reading [uN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Mark@Sea

[USMCJG]

I'll see your ignorance and raise you 31,000 scientists.

Ante up.

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”

Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists,” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

“After reading [uN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.

Excellent response Mark, but some people will believe what they want to believe in spite of nearly overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Mark@Sea]

Excellent response Mark, but some people will believe what they want to believe in spite of nearly overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, and faith is a fine thing... but it has no business in science.

[Guest clsutton21]

Yeah, and faith is a fine thing... but it has no business in science.

What about this?

http://local-warming.blogspot.com/2008/05/31000-scientists-dont-believe-in-global.html

I guess I'll raise you 89,000

It may not be happening in the extremes that Gore and other public faces show it, but it is happening. Not by 2012, probably not by 2050...but I believe that at the end of this century, we will be feeling the effects of it.

Furthermore, I never base anything on faith.

Edited November 7, 2010 by clsutton21

[titan14]

Wow! How ignorant.

It's funny to me when people are using the word ignorant, more often than not,...they seem to be showing THEIR own ignorance.

[Mark@Sea]

What about this?

local warming: 31,000 Scientists don't believe in global warming?

I guess I'll raise you 89,000

It may not be happening in the extremes that Gore and other public faces show it, but it is happening. Not by 2012, probably not by 2050...but I believe that at the end of this century, we will be feeling the effects of it.

Furthermore, I never base anything on faith.

You'd better fold...

The link you provided reads "The headline could just as easily read" 89,928 scientists refuse to sign petition blasting Kyoto

It does not claim or post a link to any such collection of scientists.

Which, for those who are comprehension challenged, doesn't claim that that many have refused to sign a petition, it's just an ungrounded attack on the petition itself. I'd like to point out that of the two parties publishing that blog you linked, one hides any identification, and the other claims to be "an artist and environmental scientist" - who designs Obama/Hope silkscreens, and whose environmental credentials seem to be limited to membership in a local gardening society.

Dude, you're a student, right? Footnotes, background, research! Always check your references.

It's funny to me when people are using the word ignorant, more often than not,...they seem to be showing THEIR own ignorance

We have a winnah! Step right up, son, and claim your prize. How about a lovely exploding ceegar?

Edited November 7, 2010 by Mark@Sea

[EwokPoacher]

In the long term, like from the formation of the planet, who really knows? Is it CO2 related, f' if I know. I'm just an average joe. But doesn't it disturb you that since the late 1800's that the average temp has risen? Or do you just not buy into NASA's study? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from the denialist point of view. Accept that the earth is just in a cycle, and start buying land in Alaska for my descendants, 'cause Anchorage is gonna be the new Cabo for a few millennia? Or "Don't worry, next year it's gonna start cooling down", and look to buy land near the equator, 'cause we've just been living in the uptick? I need answers, I got land to purchase!

[kb4ns]

...the earth is just in a cycle...

Yes.

[Mark@Sea]

It's true that the earth has experienced a warming trend since the early 1800's - in fact, the period immediately before this warming trend was known as "the little ice age" - a rapid onset mini-glacial period caused by the Maunder Minimum (abnormally low sunspot activity).

The period before the little ice age was known as the "midieval warm period", when global temps were on average several degrees higher than they are today. A period which was a boon to culture, agriculture, etc. (Do a little research on how Gore, et al dealt with the MWP data - it'll be an eye opener).

So, if it was warm, then cold, then started warming again, would you call that a cyclic phenomenon?

Climate has yet to return to the high temps experienced during the MWP, and un-edited long term data show that the earth is currently in a cooling trend. Tie this in with the extremely weak solar cycle, and if I were you, I'd avoid buying land in Alaska. Might want to invest in a wood stove and have a long term supply of firewood, though...

It doesn't pay to oversimplify, but when you get down to the basics, climate is driven by solar cycles, precession of the equinoxes and large ocean currents. Higher CO2 levels are an effect, not a cause.

The whole global warming thing isn't (and never was) about climate. It is about taxation and governance.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Mark@Sea

[USMCJG]

In the long term, like from the formation of the planet, who really knows? Is it CO2 related, f' if I know. I'm just an average joe. But doesn't it disturb you that since the late 1800's that the average temp has risen? Or do you just not buy into NASA's study? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from the denialist point of view. Accept that the earth is just in a cycle, and start buying land in Alaska for my descendants, 'cause Anchorage is gonna be the new Cabo for a few millennia? Or "Don't worry, next year it's gonna start cooling down", and look to buy land near the equator, 'cause we've just been living in the uptick? I need answers, I got land to purchase!

Considering that the Arctic ice cap is as large as it was 30 years ago, and growing. And considering that the Antarctic ice cap is 5% larger than it was 30 years ago, and growing. I'd avoid buying property in cold weather climates, unless you like to think REALLY long term. If that's the case, go ahead. Eventually it will be significantly warmer than it is now. The sun will have to decide when that is for us though(barring some cataclysmic event in the meantime). By the way, it HAS been cooling down for the last 12 years.

[Guest clsutton21]

It's funny to me when people are using the word ignorant, more often than not,...they seem to be showing THEIR own ignorance.

I'm sorry that it wasn't true in this case.

It's near impossible to argue a case here, so I won't waste my time.

What I will say though is this: The link that I put up here told of the group in which your petition was circulated. The group is supposedly 150,000 large and only 31,000 of that group signed the petition when it was sent to them, that's only 20.7% of the population of the group.

For future reference also, I won't be posting any more on the topic not because I've been bested, but because it is just too hard to argue with a closed-minded group. =D

G'day.

[Guest clsutton21]

I lied.

This is my last post on the topic: Heroes wanted in climate science story - USATODAY.com

Seems that the posters in this thread are the ones that only have the mental capacity to understand the stories, rather than the facts.

The OP video has no place in science.

Good timing USA Today.

/out

[EwokPoacher]

Considering that the Arctic ice cap is as large as it was 30 years ago, and growing. And considering that the Antarctic ice cap is 5% larger than it was 30 years ago, and growing. I'd avoid buying property in cold weather climates, unless you like to think REALLY long term. If that's the case, go ahead. Eventually it will be significantly warmer than it is now. The sun will have to decide when that is for us though(barring some cataclysmic event in the meantime). By the way, it HAS been cooling down for the last 12 years.

uh, where exactly are you getting this info? NASA says differently - NASA - Satellites Show Arctic Literally on Thin Ice

[EwokPoacher]

ummm, no. Using Mockton as a source is like using Olberman, Limbaugh, or Beck as an unbiased political analyst. However, I did find a interesting discussion on global warming, and what we can do. It's rather long (I'm sure a lot of people will punch out), but basically removes the Gore scare tactics, and presents some ideas of what might ought to be done instead.

[Mark@Sea]

So basically your argument consists of personal attacks rather than addressing the (inconvenient) truths. Congratulations, your 'moral superiority' is self evident, and by bailing out now, you demonstrate your....

Ah, sorry, can't keep a straight face. Gotta throw the BS flag here, kid.

[EwokPoacher]

...rather than addressing the (inconvenient) truths.

[Mark@Sea]

Ewokpoacher, you are right - Moncton isn't a scientist. Then again, AGW (global warming) isn't science. Its' a political/economic con game. As for tackling global warming and doing good, you're proceeding from the assumption that global warming is anthropogenic.

Doesn't matter where you end up if you start from a false assumption.

Hopefully you know my last post was in response to clsutton's drama queen exit - I was out at dinner and responding using my cel.

[Guest clsutton21]

So basically your argument consists of personal attacks rather than addressing the (inconvenient) truths. Congratulations, your 'moral superiority' is self evident, and by bailing out now, you demonstrate your....

Ah, sorry, can't keep a straight face. Gotta throw the BS flag here, kid.

lol, you're funny mister.

[EwokPoacher]

Then again, AGW (global warming) isn't science. Its' a political/economic con game.

That's where we're in disagreement. My opinion is it's real, and that's where I'll leave it. To me, our two party system is the political/economic con game.

Hopefully you know my last post was in response to clsutton's drama queen exit - I was out at dinner and responding using my cel.

No worries.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

So much damage was done to the minds of so many people with the onslaught of

people led by Gore and a bunch of scientists(?) who base their living and survival

on government grants, and being co-opted by politicians and media that first we are

going to freeze, then burn, then again freeze, that they have began to believe it.

It's too bad the scientific method was left out of most of their inquiry and the politics

was left in.

Who was that guy? Goebbels? He said something like "tell a lie until it becomes the truth".

That's a big part of the problem with all the global warming people. Lord Moncton was

only telling the truth, but some have already bought the other "truth", instead.

[Mark@Sea]

Hey, Ewokpoacher has the maturity to avoid personal attacks in lieu of data favorable to his argument. Bonus points for not quoting a t-shirt designer as a credible source.

He is entitled to his opinion, and lets' face it - there has been a lot of garbage pushed as 'scientific proof'. Heck, given the last 5 years (and our wonderful publick ejucation sistom), I am unsurprised that so many laymen confuse 'consensus' with the scientific method.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Mark@Sea