Why are people so scared?

[mikegideon]

Yes, Derringer guy is the problem. He could have let dude have the last word instead of brandishing.

Derringer guy was an idiot (if this is all true). My question... was the hammer back, or would he have time to get the hammer back before burly guy #1 got within slappin' distance?

[mikegideon]

I love these type threads.

Some like to post about their tactical urban badassness and criticize the actions of someone because they did not do it right.

Others like to post like they have never told someone to kiss their ass.

Others like to post like they have never been a bit too loud while out with some friends.

I'm sure that everyone here has done the last two.

We all know that telling someone to kiss their ass isn't the best thing to do in today's world.....but again, we have all done it.

As far as what they did after the Derringer was pulled.... well, I would have shot the bastard the split second I saw it leave his pocket.....but that's only because I'm much, much better with my gun handling then everyone else here

That said, I'm kinda in the boat of disbelief on the story too.

But, if you shot him, you may have deprived him of the bitch slappin' he so desperately deserved.

[Guest db99wj]

I love these type threads.

Some like to post about their tactical urban badassness and criticize the actions of someone because they did not do it right.

Others like to post like they have never told someone to kiss their ass.

Others like to post like they have never been a bit too loud while out with some friends.

I'm sure that everyone here has done the last two.

We all know that telling someone to kiss their ass isn't the best thing to do in today's world.....but again, we have all done it.

As far as what they did after the Derringer was pulled.... well, I would have shot the bastard the split second I saw it leave his pocket.....but that's only because I'm much, much better with my gun handling then everyone else here

That said, I'm kinda in the boat of disbelief on the story too.

Im full of urban tactical badassness......I live in Memphis, it's the way of life here!

I've been too loud. Been told to quiet down. Been told and told someone to kiss my arse and I hope if I ever have a gun pulled on me I remember my training!

[titan14]

Some like to post about their tactical urban badassness and criticize the actions of someone because they did not do it right.

Others like to post like they have never told someone to kiss their ass.

Others like to post like they have never been a bit too loud while out with some friends.

I'm sure that everyone here has done the last two.

We all know that telling someone to kiss their ass isn't the best thing to do in today's world.....but again, we have all done it.

OMG!!!! Someone else read (really read) the whole thread too????

+1 strick.... finally some common sense in this thread

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

I will just say it again because it seems like some are still missing this point:

They complied with the request to quite it down according to ADAM's first post.. It should have ended there. The guy had no right or reason to follow them out. Yes saying "kiss my ass" wasnt the most mature way to handle it and I personally dont want people with hot tempers/bad attitudes carrying BUT I can say that I can see alot of people coming back with some smartass comment after someone complained, you complied with their request, and then they still tried to stir crap up with you. Old man had no reason to draw.

[Will Carry]

I will agree that the derringer guy was in the wrong. Several of you guys say you would have drawn your weapon on the guy even though he had the drop on you. THAT is a tough call.

You have a pistol pointed at you and you don't have your hand on that smoke wagon you're packing. I don't know that I would draw my weapon in that situation. That's just begging to get shot. I know a lot of self defense instructors who will tell you that when you have a gun pointed at you all bets are off. You may be the greatest pistol fighter the world has ever seen but you are crazy if you think you can draw your weapon, while putting distance between you and the threat, aim and fire, before the bad guy can squeeze the trigger. That's why I made up the term Keyboard Cowboy.

I'm to old to think I'm Billy Badass. I would probably have a heart attack or my pants. While the bad guy was laughing, then I'd draw and fire. You always need an edge.

[DaveTN]

I will just say it again because it seems like some are still missing this point:

They complied with the request to quite it down according to ADAM's first post.. It should have ended there. The guy had no right or reason to follow them out. Yes saying "kiss my ass" wasnt the most mature way to handle it and I personally dont want people with hot tempers/bad attitudes carrying BUT I can say that I can see alot of people coming back with some smartass comment after someone complained, you complied with their request, and then they still tried to stir crap up with you. Old man had no reason to draw.

What point are we missing?

I don’t see anyone arguing that the guy was right to pull a gun. Are you implying that because a gun was pulled and no one died, something went wrong?

It happens all the time in real life.

[TGO David]

You may be the greatest pistol fighter the world has ever seen but you are crazy if you think you can draw your weapon, while putting distance between you and the threat, aim and fire, before the bad guy can squeeze the trigger. That's why I made up the term Keyboard Cowboy.

And statements like this are why I say some folks in this thread have never been in this sort of situation, or at least trained for situations like it.

Yes, you actually stand pretty decent odds if you start moving, drawing and shooting even if the other guy has his gun out first. 99.9999999999% of situations where an armed assailant attacks a legally armed citizen start out like this, where the bad guy has the drop on you. We don't all walk around carrying our sidearms in our hands just waiting, ya know.

A good defensive pistol class can be eye opening. Yes, Virginia, you really can out move and out shoot the other guy -- even if he does have the drop on you -- and survive. It's called practicing how you're going to fight and the idea is to be better at it than they are.

[DaveTN]

That's why I made up the term Keyboard Cowboy.

Are you related to Al Gore?

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

What point are we missing?

I don’t see anyone arguing that the guy was right to pull a gun. Are you implying that because a gun was pulled and no one died, something went wrong?

It happens all the time in real life.

No I was referring to the fact they replied to the request to quite down when asked. I have seen a few post in this thread that seem to have missed that and act like ADAM and his friends were straight up jerks the whole time they were in the diner which doesnt seem to be the case if ADAM's 1st post is true.

I in no way meant to imply that since no one was shot something went wrong. Not sure where you got that implication from.

[EwokPoacher]

I would probably have a heart attack or my pants. While the bad guy was laughing, then I'd draw and fire. You always need an edge.

Good plan.

[Guest db99wj]

And statements like this are why I say some folks in this thread have never been in this sort of situation, or at least trained for situations like it.

Yes, you actually stand pretty decent odds if you start moving, drawing and shooting even if the other guy has his gun out first. 99.9999999999% of situations where an armed assailant attacks a legally armed citizen start out like this, where the bad guy has the drop on you. We don't all walk around carrying our sidearms in our hands just waiting, ya know.

A good defensive pistol class can be eye opening. Yes, Virginia, you really can out move and out shoot the other guy -- even if he does have the drop on you -- and survive. It's called practicing how you're going to fight and the idea is to be better at it than they are.

This.

I have mentioned several times, retreat to cover drawing weapon and eliminate the threat, moving while drawing and moving while shooting is essential in your training.

[BigK]

Reasons to not draw your weapon on an armed adversary:

1: Backstop is a bunch of kids, nuns, elderly celebrating a birthday party.

2: Adversary is too close to draw on without first distracting him by saying "Look over there. . . BOOBIES!"

3. Police on the scene already about to shoot that fool, thus saving you legal fees.

NOT reasons to not draw your weapon on an armed adversary:

1: Afflicted with Big & Burly Disease

2: WHY? My boyz gots my back!

3: He just actin' crazy. I mean a derringer? Really?

Awesome! Loved this.

As a guy afflicted with big & burly disease, It would never have occurred to me to even attempt closing the distance to disarm someone threatening me with a gun (not even if I had boyz who had my back).

I'd like to think I'd make smarter choices, but I've never had a gun pulled on me. I will confess to having been distracted by BOOBIES, though.

[Links2k]

And statements like this are why I say some folks in this thread have never been in this sort of situation, or at least trained for situations like it.

Yes, you actually stand pretty decent odds if you start moving, drawing and shooting even if the other guy has his gun out first. 99.9999999999% of situations where an armed assailant attacks a legally armed citizen start out like this, where the bad guy has the drop on you. We don't all walk around carrying our sidearms in our hands just waiting, ya know.

A good defensive pistol class can be eye opening. Yes, Virginia, you really can out move and out shoot the other guy -- even if he does have the drop on you -- and survive. It's called practicing how you're going to fight and the idea is to be better at it than they are.

Plus1 I received some defensive training from a pro that I know will save my life. It its up to me to keep those skills sharp. Moving and shooting will save your life.

[Will Carry]

DaveTN says "you really can out move and out shoot the other guy -- even if he does have the drop on you -- and survive." Yes and Monkeys can fly out of my ***. Dave you are a good man and don't think I'm saying anything without a smile. This is a discussion and anyone can say anything and I won't git mad. We are freinds. BUT 1) If I pull a gun on someone. It's shootin' time. You can dance all you want but before you can pull your pistol, you will be meeting Saint Peter at the Holy Gates. 2) there is always the chance I could miss...........Do ya feel lucky?

This is a discussion that needs to be talked about. Feel free to jump in and say what you feel. You will not offend me. We are just talking.

[TGO David]

DaveTN says "you really can out move and out shoot the other guy -- even if he does have the drop on you -- and survive." Yes and Monkeys can fly out of my ***. Dave you are a good man and don't think I'm saying anything without a smile. This is a discussion and anyone can say anything and I won't git mad. We are freinds. BUT 1) If I pull a gun on someone. It's shootin' time. You can dance all you want but before you can pull your pistol, you will be meeting Saint Peter at the Holy Gates. 2) there is always the chance I could miss...........Do ya feel lucky?

This is a discussion that needs to be talked about. Feel free to jump in and say what you feel. You will not offend me. We are just talking.

First it wasn't DaveTN that said it. It was me. Second, a skilled shooter vs. a skilled shooter is a little different story but I still put better odds toward survival on the guy who is moving and shooting vs. the guy who is standing still with his thumb up his butt.

Back to the original statement, a skilled shooter who is moving, using cover and shooting is in a much better position than the typical moron criminal who likely has zero gun handling experience and only knows how to point and spray.

The whole "Do ya feel lucky" is a little too Holly-East-Wood for me.

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

DaveTN says "you really can out move and out shoot the other guy -- even if he does have the drop on you -- and survive." Yes and Monkeys can fly out of my ***. Dave you are a good man and don't think I'm saying anything without a smile. This is a discussion and anyone can say anything and I won't git mad. We are freinds. BUT 1) If I pull a gun on someone. It's shootin' time. You can dance all you want but before you can pull your pistol, you will be meeting Saint Peter at the Holy Gates. 2) there is always the chance I could miss...........Do ya feel lucky?

This is a discussion that needs to be talked about. Feel free to jump in and say what you feel. You will not offend me. We are just talking.

But the difference in your situation is you got the drop and you intend to immediately shoot the target. This is quite different from the case here or a "stickup" where the person has the gun pulled to intimidate for the moment not to immediately shoot and kill. Also you are likely a much better shot that the average joe who is pulling a gun in the situations I mentioned.

[monkeylizard]

We don't all walk around carrying our sidearms in our hands just waiting, ya know.

Not unless we're in Belle Meade.

[TGO David]

Not unless we're in Belle Meade.

There is certainly an exception for every case.

[Punisher84]

I gotta ask Will, why the hell do you carry? Are you hoping for that magical situation that allows you to draw, check your chamber, get in a weaver stance, then fire 2 perfect COM shots? Come on man get real.

I'm no badass and I don't claim to be, but I have drawn my gun before, I have had guns and knives pulled on me at work and off, and I know how I'll react. I've trained for it, thought about it, and so far have managed to survive.

This whole mentality you have thinking it's an old west street duel is mistaken. If someone is within reach pointing a gun at you there are quite a number of things to be done other than **** your pants and prepare to see Jesus. They may kill me, but I'm gonna make them work to do it.

[Guest GunTroll]

I'm to old to think I'm Billy Badass. I would probably have a heart attack or my pants. While the bad guy was laughing, then I'd draw and fire. You always need an edge.

I hate when that happens to me! I wonder what its like to fire defensively while having a heart attack? Or with shiet in my britches? Wonder if there is a course that offers those types of training scenarios.

ear and eye pro....check

Bullets ....check

pistol ....check

crap in pants....hold on

training. I love the image!

Good plan.

Glad someone else thinks so as well. I'm not alone.

[DaveTN]

DaveTN says "you really can out move and out shoot the other guy -- even if he does have the drop on you -- and survive." Yes and Monkeys can fly out of my ***. Dave you are a good man and don't think I'm saying anything without a smile. This is a discussion and anyone can say anything and I won't git mad. We are freinds. BUT 1) If I pull a gun on someone. It's shootin' time. You can dance all you want but before you can pull your pistol, you will be meeting Saint Peter at the Holy Gates. 2) there is always the chance I could miss...........Do ya feel lucky?

This is a discussion that needs to be talked about. Feel free to jump in and say what you feel. You will not offend me. We are just talking.

Okay. Well first off you are quoting David not me.

Secondly you are theorizing what you would do or what it would be like to be in a shooting. I have been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I have survived every armed encounter I have been in and I have never been shot.

Every situation you encounter will be different. I am one of those that given this situation as it was described, I doubt I would have shot the guy. I will never get in an argument or a fight while I am armed… never. So I would not have responded with “Kiss my ass.†I also would not have approached the man; he was obviously nuts.

So…. I have a man that is yelling at me to not come back. He has a derringer in his hand and he is standing in front of the doors of the restaurant. So I have three choices.

1. Do I draw my weapon and shoot him dead? Probably not when I’m not sure who or what is behind him. Is it really a gun or it is a cell phone? You better be damn sure because if what he has in his hand isn’t a gun you just killed a man over him telling you not to come back to a restaurant.

2. I move to take cover behind vehicles in the parking lot as I draw my weapon. I then see what he is doing.

3. I determine that he is not an immediate danger and walk to my car.

Without knowing exactly what happened I would probably go with 2 or 3. However, no matter what happened I would call 911 and that man would be in jail.

When I said “No Fear†I did not mean to imply that I would face a gunman without fear. I simply meant that I do not fear death. I also am not going to take a life because someone has put themselves in a situation where I can legally do so. And guys…. That is what I am picturing here.. An old guy that is scared of these loud mouthed bully’s and holding a gun in his hand. I don’t see that as an immediate threat and I do not want to make that argument in court or know that I took a life when I didn’t need to. We now know with absolute certainty that this guy was not going to shoot. If he was he would have shot the guy instead of letting him take his gun.

Now let’s get to the funny part.

Monkeys flying out of your butt?? Luck?? As I said I have been in the situation of facing an armed assailant with a gun pointed at me. I survived and luck had nothing to do with it.

Just last week you had made the decision you were going to shoot everyone in the hips. Tea shot out of my nose when I read that. It’s those kinds of things that make it hard to have a serious conversation about shooting tactics on the internet.

I can tell by your posts on here that you are confused and I doubt you would survive against a skilled shooter. You are confused about whether or not you are justified, you are confused about where you will shoot the person, you are confused about your equipment and weapons handling.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If you don't show respect, you will never get respect.

People whose response to another is "Kiss my ass", don't deserve the time of day

and were brought up without learning a basic tool for a civilized society to prosper.

If you don't realize, on your own, that you are being rowdy enough to possibly

upset other patrons of an establishment, husbands and wives, families with children,

and have to be told to settle down, you are the one with the problem. If you don't

recognize this, eventually you will be dealt with by people who like their peace while

having dinner or other function. And by saying "He did this first" doesn't justify much

other than your ignorance. A decent man will back off and show some respect without

escalating something that can get out of control and possibly end up in someone dying.

The derringer guy was probably scared, but may have felt his honor in front of others

was to do what he did. He was wrong, but anyone telling him to "kiss my ass" needs to

grow up and become respectful of others. Honor can get one killed, also.

People are scared of stupidity and of the people that display it sometimes. Quit being

stupid and try being respectful of others. You might get surprised and see them respect

you. This ain't the Wild West. Grow up!

[Will Carry]

Punisher, why do you carry? I carry for self protection. I have a permit to carry a concealed handgun. When I was your age I did not have the option so I had to depend on my brain, my brawn and my feets. I have talked my way out of trouble, fought my way out of trouble and run my way out of trouble. I'm still a big man but I'm 55 years old. I can't run any more and I ain't sure how a kin fight hand to hand. Carrying concealed just evens the playing field. I hope I never have to draw down on anyone. I joke about soiling my pants or having a heart attack becuase I don't feel like I need to strut like a young rooster. I try to be good natured when I can.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Will Carry

[titan14]

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