Why are people so scared?

[daddyo]

Telling someone to "kiss my ass" is asking for trouble. It's a sign of immaturity, at the least. And, not to defend the

guy pulling the derringer, but why in the heck can't you just be polite to someone and tone it down when asked?

Is that too much to ask? If you are a huggable big teddy bear, then why not act like one so you won't get into

stupid situations that are totally avoidable. Civil people don't act this way.

They keep their comments to themselves. Your friend has been watching too many action movies.

I agree with you mosinon.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS....

[Dolomite_supafly]

I find it interesting that the majority of people seem to think that the proper response to having a weapon pointed at them is to draw and shoot.

I dont have an HCP yet, don't do the cowboy shooting thing but I am comfortable in saying if a gun is already pointed at you you've kind of lost that battle. Maybe everyone else is a super fast draw or something but I wouldn't be looking for a contest versus drawing and pulling the trigger versus just pulling the trigger. Were I in that situation, I'd be furiously trying to defuse the situation.

Maybe I'm a coward or something but I'd just as soon not get shot. And my eyes are weak, in the heat of the moment doubt I could tell a .22 derringer from a .357. But that is just me. I'm slow like that.

The battle is never lost until it is over.

Just because someone already as a gun drawn does not ensure they are going to hit their target. Most shots fired during a gunfight miss their intended target. Considering derringer guy only has two shots I would have taken my chances and drawn. After I draw I will give a bad guy a warning, if I can, before shooting and it sounds like I would have probably given the derringer guy a few warnings. I am always going to pull my gun unless the bad guy's gun is pressed against my head or the heads of my loved ones.

I too prefer to walk away from a fight if possible but I will not lay down either.

And to play devil's advocate here. You have three big and burly looking men being loud and probably obnoxious, normal acting people do not get asked to "turn it down". From the sounds of it your friend is a bit of a hot head and I am sure there were some other stuff that was said or done at the table after the guy asked you to "turn it down". After you finish the three of you leave and the person steps out to tell you "don't ever come back". He probably followed you out so as not to upset the other patrons if you guys became loud and obnoxious again. Now the three of you undoubtedly turn towards him and one of your buddys told the guy to kiss his ass. I am not sure what happened between the time your buddy told the guy to kiss his ass and the time the guy pulls his gun but if I had three big and burly looking men (your words not mine) who were loud and obnoxious act aggressive (remember it is in how it is perceived by derringer guy) towards me I would feel threatened as well. You gave no description of the guy with the derringer but I would seriously doubt he would feel he could defend himself in a fight between him and three big and burly looking men, especially if he was older or if he had medical problems.

I am not saying the derringer guy was in the right because there isn't enough info here but I am saying there is probably more to it if he felt he needed to pull a gun, especially if the guy has been in trouble for it before.

I have drawn on an unarmed group of people as well. It was in New Mexico and I was being surrounded by the group as I doing a quick search of their car. I do know that just because they are unarmed doesn't mean you can't be seriously hurt or killed.

Dolomite

[HOLEPUNCHER]

I think this bothers me because "verbage" brought on the whole situation. Why is anyone so quick to respond back when words aren't really a threat? The threat came when the derringer arrived on the scene. If everyone would have just left, no problems. I wouldn't want to go back to that restaurant anyway, if the time with my friends was truly civil and the restaurant employee was out of line. Isn't there something about,"sticks and stones"?

[Guest tnxdshooter]

appeared to be a .22, But what if it had been a Lightweight & Ultra Lightweight Length: 4.82 inches

Barrel: 3 inches

Grip width: 1.1 inches

Weight: 7.5 oz.

Grips: Blackwood

Finish: Grey Matte

2-shots with automatic barrel selection.

All American Derringers are equipped with a manually operated Hammer Block type safety. The safety automatically disengages when the hammer is cocked. Frame and Barrel are made from high strength aircraft aluminum.

Available in .44 Special, .380 Auto, .38 Special,

.32 Magnum/.32 S&W Long, .22LR and .22 Magnum

Could have even been the snake slayer 45 colt/.410

[Punisher84]

Could have even been the snake slayer 45 colt/.410

You have to say that in the "monster truck derby commercial announcer" voice. SNAKE SLAYER!!!!

[laktrash]

Did we ever establish where this took place or did I miss that ?

[Handsome Rob]

As a casual observer to this thread, with pretty much nothing constructive to add, could I please suggest everyone go bck & read Adam's posts.

A few of you seem to have either misunderstood, or, misinterpreted what Adam has posted.

1. Derringer guy is not an employee at the restaurant

2. Adam & his buddies are regulars there & are known to the staff

3. Derringer guy was a patron of (and stranger to) the restaurant

4. Adam & his buddies complied with the request to quieten down

5. Unless you've had a gun drawn on you, you don't really know how you'd react, training or no training

Adam stated that he never really felt threatened & therefore had no reason to draw & yes, while his friend may be in for Captain Retard of the Year award, I applaud him for not further escalating the situation & possibly getting someone killed.

[Will Carry]

It seems a lot of you fellers would have killed the old man with the derringer. That's bold talk comin' from Keyboard Cowboys. ADAM was able to walk away with nobody getting hurt. ADAM did the right thing.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Will Carry

[Punisher84]

It seems a lot of you fellers would have killed the old man with the derringer. That's bold talk. ADAM was able to walk away with nobody getting hurt. ADAM did the right thing.

Well by all means wait and find out if the person who pulls a gun on you is only bluffing. BTW what is too "old" to kill you? I wasn't aware there was a cut off. Just because Adam's friend got lucky doesn't mean everyone will or that he will next time. I've taken YEARS of martial arts and done gun and knife take aways. Sometimes you get lucky. Mostly you don't. If he pointed at my friend he'd have been in the ER or morgue. That's not "bold talk". That's a statement of pure fact.

[DaveTN]

5. Unless you've had a gun drawn on you, you don't really know how you'd react, training or no training

It’s too bad there is no way to find out how you would react in a shooting. I found out and I was really surprised when I looked back on it after it happened.

[Punisher84]

Its too bad there is no way to find out how you would react in a shooting. I found out and I was really surprised when I looked back on it after it happened.

I don't know how I'd feel after I fired, but I know how I felt after I drew my weapon and came within a fraction of a second of firing so I would hope and think it would be at least similar.

[mikegideon]

Well by all means wait and find out if the person who pulls a gun on you is only bluffing. BTW what is too "old" to kill you? I wasn't aware there was a cut off. Just because Adam's friend got lucky doesn't mean everyone will or that he will next time. I've taken YEARS of martial arts and done gun and knife take aways. Sometimes you get lucky. Mostly you don't. If he pointed at my friend he'd have been in the ER or morgue. That's not "bold talk". That's a statement of pure fact.

This is probably one of those cases where you really had to be there. I've seen a couple of idiots brandish a pistol over the years. It's probably better for everybody that they didn't get shot for it, not that they didn't deserve it.

[DaveTN]

I don't know how I'd feel after I fired, but I know how I felt after I drew my weapon and came within a fraction of a second of firing so I would hope and think it would be at least similar.

How you would feel after it is over isn’t really important (Although it may impact how you react the next time). What is important was that you learned how your body and mind will react in that situation, at least up to the point of pulling the trigger. You got an insight into yourself that most people don’t experience; there just is no way to know that without experiencing it in real life. I truly believe that because of the way I was trained I lived through it.

I picture this guy standing in front of the doors of a restaurant. So I just don’t see me blindly opening fire just because I can. But that’s how I was trained.

[Will Carry]

It was a bad situation. Adam and his buddies, by his own admission, were behaving badly inside the place. They were loud and probably using bad language, by the fact that when asked not to return the guy said "kiss my ****." If they could have drawn their weapons and killed the old man without getting two .22 rounds pumped into them, then their would have been a jury trial. In a rural Tennessee town. All your martial arts training would be of no help then, you'd need a good lawyer. Then you'd have to convince the jury that you were not at fault and hope this old man didn't have many friends or family in the town. The lesson to be learned here is: When asked not to come back to a restaurant becuase you were too rowdy, don't say "Kiss my ****." Adam is not a bad guy. He's just a little young and rowdy. This is a great thread and I thank ADAM for starting it. It shows that there is a gray area where training and tactics meet the human aspect. There is no clearly defined line.

A friend of mine got into trouble in Polk County back in the 80's. It costs him $2500 to get out of Polk County becuase he had a six pack of beer in an inner tube floating down a river. "It doesn't pay to do wrong" in rural Tennessee.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Will Carry

[Punisher84]

How you would feel after it is over isn’t really important (Although it may impact how you react the next time). What is important was that you learned how your body and mind will react in that situation, at least up to the point of pulling the trigger. You got an insight into yourself that most people don’t experience; there just is no way to know that without experiencing it in real life. I truly believe that because of the way I was trained I lived through it.

I picture this guy standing in front of the doors of a restaurant. So I just don’t see me blindly opening fire just because I can. But that’s how I was trained.

Agreed. Based on what Adam has said about the way this went down I don't really agree with either party's actions. Despite how I may come across here sometimes I'm a pretty reserved guy in public and at work. I defuse far more events at work than I have end up escalating. That being said, if someone pulled a gun on me, they are at the very least going to have a scuffle on their hands. Obviously in this case it wasn't necessary to kill the guy, but had this been a one on one in a parking lot with what I deemed as a legitimate threat...I believe the story would have ended on a more somber note.

[JeffsSig]

Bottom line:

No one was hurt. One who seems in need to be taken off the streets was turned over to the police.

All incidents have 2 or more sides. All incidents can be looked at after the fact and torn apart by many opinions.

As for the end result.......................................... The right thing was done in the end.

[Guest GunTroll]

Nice job Adam. Don't know what I would have done cause I wasn't there. No one was killed so it all worked out.

[TGO David]

Interesting to read some of the responses here. Obviously a lot of people have formed opinions on what they would have (or actually wouldn't have) done in a situation like this based off of God knows what. Magazines? Movies? Introspective belly button gazing? Wherever the knowledge and insight was gained, it wasn't gained in the real world where situations such as this are extraordinarily dynamic and do not follow any sort of script or outline.

My own "game plan" -- if you want to call it that -- comes from having been shot before. Twice. Neither time was malicious, both were accidental and both are extremely long stories that I don't really care to go into. One was a freak accident the other was childhood stupidity. Both hurt like hell and one left me in a pretty precarious situation that could have gone either way, survival-wise. Perhaps one of the more defining insights that I gained from these experiences is that I'll damn sure do anything in my power to prevent being shot ever again.

Pretty sure I wouldn't have tried to disarm the guy. Pretty sure someone would have ended up shot in this situation. Pretty sure it wouldn't have been me either.

Of course that's all assuming this even happened to begin with, which I'm still pretty uncertain of. It's very easy to substantiate, though. Since the dude with the Derringer was arrested, there has to be an arrest report and those are public record. Let's have some more information so that I can join the ranks of those who believe.

County or municipality where this happened? Date and location on which it occurred? I can handle the rest.

Thanks.

[Guest db99wj]

I would like to think no one here would "want" to kill the guy, and yes no one got hurt or killed which is the "best" outcome, they were immature, and disarming the guy might not be the preferred method. The problem and it's more of disbelief is that there was no real reaction to a "man with a gun". This scenario, of someone following you out somewhere and pulling a gun is or should be a "classic" scenario that we consider, train for, be aware of when we are out doing our business. In this situation, it seems like the threat was dismissed and I think the op and his buddies are damn lucky that one of them didn't get killed.

[TGO David]

I'd just like to suspend my disbelief. By doing so, I might be able to devote time to actually dissect and digest the encounter as described and maybe learn something more form it. Again, a police report would help me with the whole disbelief part.

[DaveTN]

County or municipality where this happened? Date and location on which it occurred? I can handle the rest.

Not to change the subject, but if that is true why can’t we determine what (if anything) happened with the claim of the guy from (Colorado?) out of state that while passing through Tennessee, he was stopped by THP and his guns confiscated on I-40 near Cookeville?

[EwokPoacher]

Hmmm... my thought is "what ever happened to acting like a mature adult and ignoring stupid people instead of turning around and cussing at them?" Seems to me that if you have managed to have a gun pulled on you twice, then you need to rethink the places you go, the people you hang around with, and the way you act while you are in public.

+1

just think if the night had ended differently with your buddy wounded or dead, and you or your friend shooting derringer guy... all because of the lack of civility in the first part by all parties involved. Derringer guy was obviously scared of the three of you, and thinking because he had a gun gave him misguided courage. Sounds like he didn't want to hurt anyone, but wanted to show he had the upper hand (which is ignorant, everyone could be carrying). Otherwise, your billy-badass friend would have had a hole in him. No wonder the Libs want to take our guns. Good choice by you to not provoke the situation any further, and I hope you don't find yourself in a position like this ever again.

[Guest db99wj]

+1

just think if the night had ended differently with your buddy wounded or dead, and you or your friend shooting derringer guy... all because of the lack of civility in the first part by all parties involved. Derringer guy was obviously scared of the three of you, and thinking because he had a gun gave him misguided courage. Sounds like he didn't want to hurt anyone, but wanted to show he had the upper hand (which is ignorant, everyone could be carrying). Otherwise, your billy-badass friend would have had a hole in him. No wonder the Libs want to take our guns. Good choice by you to not provoke the situation any further, and I hope you don't find yourself in a position like this ever again.

Derringer guy is the problem, HE FOLLOWED THEM out the door, they were leaving dude escalated the situation. This is the perfect scenario for a training class. None of my training ever said to stand there. My butt would be drawing while retreating to cover and eliminating the threat if possible. If my family was there I would be putting myself between the gunman and my family looking for an opportunity to draw an fire if possible. I make no apologies for this mentality I'm not going out like that, I'm not going out because I was to naive to realize the severity of the situation. IANAL, but telling someone to kiss your a$$ is not grounds to utilize lethal force but having a gun pulled on you like this is.

[EwokPoacher]

Yes, Derringer guy is the problem. He could have let dude have the last word instead of brandishing.

[strickj]

I love these type threads.

Some like to post about their tactical urban badassness and criticize the actions of someone because they did not do it right.

Others like to post like they have never told someone to kiss their ass.

Others like to post like they have never been a bit too loud while out with some friends.

I'm sure that everyone here has done the last two.

We all know that telling someone to kiss their ass isn't the best thing to do in today's world.....but again, we have all done it.

As far as what they did after the Derringer was pulled.... well, I would have shot the bastard the split second I saw it leave his pocket.....but that's only because I'm much, much better with my gun handling then everyone else here

That said, I'm kinda in the boat of disbelief on the story too.