Expo Show this weekend(6th)

[Dolomite_supafly]

The same white haired guy even put his hands on one of the vendors who happens to be a member here. The vendor was trying to talk to the white haired guy when the white haired guy grabbed the vendor by the arm. That happened the same weekend I lost my ammo earlier this year. They security at the Expo Center is acting like it is some sort of game.

My ammo was taken by a young kid as he laughed about it. I honestly should have pushed the issue a lot farther but seeing how the kid was young and only following someone else's directions I felt there was no need for him to have a criminal record. On another note it would be interesting to know what they do with the seized ammo. If they are taking it and shooting it, or even worse selling it, they are running a serious risk as some people carry reloads. I know the ones they seized from me were HOT, HOT, HOT and had they fired them in anything but a modern gun it probably wouldn't have ended well.

I have always said they have the right to ask you to leave but they have absolutely no right to take your property, even if they do have signs posted saying no ammo. It is the same if I put a sign at the end of my drive way that said "no trucks" then the second someone drives into my driveway with a truck I walk out and seize it.

There is a show coming up on the 11th and 12th, maybe I might stand there and let everyone know that the security can not legally seize their ammo. Seizing it on the other hand is in fact theft.

Just to reiterate, your ammo will be replaced by the show promoter if it is seized. I had 14 handloads replaced with a box of Speer Gold dots because I used Gold Dots in my handloads. I comtanted the promoter and had his nephew hand me the *CASH* to buy my replacement ammo.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

The same white haired guy even put his hands on one of the vendors who happens to be a member here...

Guy makes me mad when I just see him now, after hearing how he threatened another of our own, Bluemax, and after my personally hearing him harass the two guys standing near the snack area outside the actual vendor floor. And of course, your saga.

I actually made note of his name at one point off his badge, but forgot it (also have forgotten name of security company). I can't believe he's made it intact this long if he behaves that way on all of whatever other security gigs he works.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

He is actually a part of the KCSO. Like a reserve or their senior citizen watch program. I looked at his name the last time I was at the Expo show but I can't remember it either. It is an odd name though, nothing common like Smith or Johnson.

He is able to get away with it because people, including me, don't call him on it. And honestly if something happened to me legally I would probably loose my clearances. It is those clearances that will let me work if I ever get well enough to go back to work. Even an arrest without a conviction could cost them and I am just not willing to stand my ground on it, at least not now.

What would probably happen if someone stood their ground he woud arrest them but use either disorderly conduct or public intox as the reason for arrest. Either one you would have little chance of winning. With public intox you can't have your blood alcohol level checked. I have seen that plenty of times, new arrestees request a breathalyzer to determine drunkiness only to get denied. When I worked there I have seen people get arrested for PI and come off the wagon stone cold sober, rare but it did happen. With disorderly conduct, it is based on the officer's testimony and who is going to believe a lonely citizen over an officer. It was joked about as being "contempt of cop", that is do something to upset the officer and off you go. I have not seen it often but I have seen it often enough to be leary of it.

I am not saying this to lump all officers into the same category because very few officers are like this but they are out there and anyone who has been in LE for any amount of time is aware of it, maybe not directly but have probably heard of someone who has done it. And this leads me to this question that I always asked when something questionable happened while I was in LE, which was a long time. If you see an officer that is doing something that could bring a bad light on the rest of us officers why not step across that thin blue line and smack some sense into them? And if that doesn't straighten him/her up fire them rather than allow them to resign to go somewhere else continue his antics within the LE community (that I have personally seen enough to know it is common practice). A single bad cop can bring such a large amount of bad light on ALL the good cops and that is what upset me so bad. Biggest problem officers have in turning in their own is once you are labled a rat you are pretty much done in LE because you will be blackballed. Every time there was a bad cop in the news I would always get asked about it and when I would say "not me" I would get get looked at with the "yeah right" look.

Again this wasn't meant to bash LE in general but it is meant to absh the few bad ones that bring bad light on the rest when a few bad officers step out of bounds.

Dolomite

[Mdunntn]

What's this guys name? My cousin is the manager of the expo center maybe I can talk to her about it? Not sure if it would do anything but at least she would be aware.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'll PM you the name after this weekend. There is a show at the Expo center and he will be there.

I have a long conversation with Rex of RK Shows about the whole situation. He said part of the contract was that the Expo center would provide the security. Rex has spoke to them since my incident earlier this year about using his own security and he said the Expo center didn't want to budge on that. The Expo center charges RK for providing security so I am sure the Expo center is making money on the deal.

Rex went on to say he will not be renewing his contract with the Expo center next year unless they let him use his security. He gets calls after every show from people complaining about the security there. Only a few more shows on this contract then maybe we can finally not get hassled for going to a show.

Dolomite

[Mdunntn]

I'll PM you the name after this weekend. There is a show at the Expo center and he will be there.

I have a long conversation with Rex of RK Shows about the whole situation. He said part of the contract was that the Expo center would provide the security. Rex has spoke to them since my incident earlier this year about using his own security and he said the Expo center didn't want to budge on that. The Expo center charges RK for providing security so I am sure the Expo center is making money on the deal.

Rex went on to say he will not be renewing his contract with the Expo center next year unless they let him use his security. He gets calls after every show from people complaining about the security there. Only a few more shows on this contract then maybe we can finally not get hassled for going to a show.

Dolomite

I'll see what I can do. I can't see her letting the shows go, the people that are her boss I don't know about though never met them.

[Mike.357]

the best way to avoid confrontation with the security people at the Expo Center is to keep your piece concealed and don't go pulling it out while you are on the show floor.

Christ, it is not like they have X-ray vision or something.

[Dolomite_supafly]

We are talking about as you enter or when you are outside selling a firearm. He runs around outside and threatens people. On the way in if you happen to have ammo on your person they steal it and point to a sign.

Problem is the security is taking personal property without due process and when no laws have been broken, only rules set by the property owner. There is no sign in the world that allows a private party to take another private party's property, that has to be done through the courts. The security working there are not working as LE, they are working as an agent of the private property owner, the Expo Center. I am really surprized people haven't sued the Expo Center because those agents, who are stealing private property without due process, represent the Expo Center and as such the Expo Center can be held accountable in civil court for the agents actions even if those the agent represents are not present. If one of the security guards assualted you, you could sue the security guard as well as those he works for. Also, I wonder if because they also wear the uniform of the Sheriff's Office if they could also be held accountable because the security is also representing themselves as an agent of the Sheirff's Office. They can enforce laws and they can enforce the property owners rules unless those rules violate laws. The can ask you to leave or refuse you admittance with the ammo but they can not legally take your property when no laws have been violated. When they seize private property when no laws have been broken is theft plan and simple.

Dolomite

[Oh Shoot]

We are talking about as you enter or when you are outside selling a firearm. ...

So you can't really sell ammo there as a non-vendor then, unless you do it on the sly, right?

- OS

[Jon_L]

Is anyone going to this next show that's coming up?

[Dolomite_supafly]

So you can't really sell ammo there as a non-vendor then, unless you do it on the sly, right?

- OS

You are getting into a gray area. They said no loose ammo or loaded magazines when they stole mine. When I said I was going to walk right inside and buy ammo to replace what they took they said it was fine. But, there always is a but, if I tried to come in again with it they would take it as well. He never said boxed ammo was against the rule, just loose ammo and loaded magazines.

At one point I thought it was something hatched by the dealers to sell more ammo because that first weekend they were stealing ammo from people that had taken a lot by the time I made it through the doors which was relatively early.

And to anyone who has been following what I have said. I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so verify everything I have said before you put your freedom or your hobby in jeopardy.

Dolomite