Carrabba's posting...legal or no

[Parrothead]

The wife and I get gift certificates from discover every month we love going to Carrabba's for dinner. I knew they were operated by the same group that manages bonefish grill and outback (which posted locally last yr.) I have checked on every visit over the last few months and Carrabba's has never been posted (or i missed it.....possible reason will follow.)

So i go in tonight...check the door and surrounding windows-- no sticker or signage of any type. So i proceeded...concealed. Because we had to wait for a table, i had time to look around for a while. On a interior wall i noticed a small sign that stated "We respect the rights of our customers but unfortunately we do not allow weapons in this establishment." That might not be exact wording but pretty darn close. This was posted in the same area has tax info, health department score, and a large number of other certificates and such.

Basically, I would like to know if this is a legal posting or not? Regardless, i wont be back and i will contact the manager via email tonight to share my opinions (respectfully of course.)

Thanks for the help.....

BTW....managers name is John Fackler and his email address is ca9305@carrabbas.com

[JayC]

IANAL but unless it references 39-17-1359 or has a gun buster sign it's not a legal posting.

The wife and I get gift certificates from discover every month we love going to Carrabba's for dinner. I knew they were operated by the same group that manages bonefish grill and outback (which posted locally last yr.) I have checked on every visit over the last few months and Carrabba's has never been posted (or i missed it.....possible reason will follow.)

So i go in tonight...check the door and surrounding windows-- no sticker or signage of any type. So i proceeded...concealed. Because we had to wait for a table, i had time to look around for a while. On a interior wall i noticed a small sign that stated "We respect the rights of our customers but unfortunately we do not allow weapons in this establishment." That might not be exact wording but pretty darn close. This was posted in the same area has tax info, health department score, and a large number of other certificates and such.

Basically, I would like to know if this is a legal posting or not? Regardless, i wont be back and i will contact the manager via email tonight to share my opinions (respectfully of course.)

Thanks for the help.....

BTW....managers name is John Fackler and his email address is ca9305@carrabbas.com

[Parrothead]

I forgot to mention, the sign was posted in the waiting area (probably 5ft off the ground in the center of the wall.) When at capacity, the sign would completely blocked from view.....even if you were looking for it.

[dats82]

From the sound of it, you must have never seen the sign.

[Oh Shoot]

No, it's not anywhere conforming in verbiage, or in the way/location it's even placed on wall.

On the other hand, and just as we always discussed before, does it even have to be legal or better word "conforming" for you to be convicted?

Really up to the judge, eh?

Like his reasoning might be, "did you not understand the meaning of the sign?".

It's all speculation, since we still have not seen a case where anyone has been charged with carrying past a sign.

- OS

[Parrothead]

From the sound of it, you must have never seen the sign.

Its the principle really. Too many local restaurants struggle to compete with the chains. I rarely eat at a chain restaurant but now they have said they don't want my business. I'll just have to take my money elsewhere.

[Fallguy]

Doesn't sound like it conforms to 39-17-1359 to me either. Does not contain required language, not posted on the "entrance".

[Dolomite_supafly]

Wow, I have eaten there a couple of times in Knoxville and never disarmed. I never seen the sign and I make sure to always check. In fact I tell my wife and son to check for the signs also. If the one in Knoxville has a sign it is well hidden like the one you visited.

Email the manager and see what the response will be. If it isn't to your satisfaction contact their corporate office and include the manager's email. And when all else fails just quit eating there. Eventually these places are going to see that alienating themselves from a large percentage of the population does hurt your bottom line.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

I just emailed them a letter. I'll post when I get a response.

Dolomite

[Steelharp]

There is no "conforming language" requirement anymore, IF I understand the new regs passed. They can pretty much scrawl it in crayon, and it's legal... correct me if I'm wrong, please?

[dralarms]

There is no "conforming language" requirement anymore, IF I understand the new regs passed. They can pretty much scrawl it in crayon, and it's legal... correct me if I'm wrong, please?

Nope, the law says either the gunbusters sign an/or a sign with the exact verbage quoting the law.

[Fallguy]

There is no "conforming language" requirement anymore, IF I understand the new regs passed. They can pretty much scrawl it in crayon, and it's legal... correct me if I'm wrong, please?

Actually couldn't be more wrong...

Even though they allowed the "Circle and Slash" symbol to be a legal posting on it's own if used. They also went on to define what "substantially similar" must include if wording alone is used.

39-17-1359((3)(A) If a sign is used as the method of posting, it shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

AS AUTHORIZED BY T.C.A. §

39-17-1359

, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

(

As used in this section, “language substantially similar to” means the sign contains language plainly stating that:

(i)

The property is posted under authority of Tennessee law;

(ii)

Weapons or firearms are prohibited on the property, in the building, or on the portion of the property or building that is posted; and

(iii)

Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

:rolleyes:Communist carrabas go figure, I think some how some way if they are going to post they need to be held accountable for their sign.

[Oh Shoot]

...or a sign with the exact verbage quoting the law.

Nope, "exact" not required, see FG's post.

Only the park carry statute has exact wording required.

- OS

[DaveTN]

It’s not in plain view at the doorway so it doesn’t matter what it says.

All you teetotalers go ahead and carry; I need your protection. I’ll be the guy knocking back the big azz beers and enjoying myself. If I see you carrying, I'll buy you a sweet tea.

[Guest Gunbunnie]

If the signs are not correct or in a location where you can reasonabley see them then what are the pentilites/ libilities for the restruant opereator. Since we could lose our permit they should lose something as well such as their achoal or beer permits.

Daryl

[Fallguy]

If the signs are not correct or in a location where you can reasonabley see them then what are the pentilites/ libilities for the restruant opereator. Since we could lose our permit they should lose something as well such as their achoal or beer permits.

Daryl

If a place is improperly posted there are no penalties/liabilities for the property owner other than they haven't legally prevented those with a HCP from carry on their property.

The trouble (as you sort of mention) is that it could take a judge to make the determination and it may or may not go your way.

But has been said many times on here, there are no known cases of a violation of 39-17-1359 going to court also these types of posting are what many people reference when they say "concealed means concealed."

[G27]

It’s not in plain view at the doorway so it doesn’t matter what it says.

All you teetotalers go ahead and carry; I need your protection. I’ll be the guy knocking back the big azz beers and enjoying myself. If I see you carrying, I'll buy you a sweet tea.

[Steelharp]

I knew some of you guys would know; many thanks...

[Parrothead]

Ok, I want to add a picture of the sign and location. The sign is dark in color and directly below the picture of the founders. Let me know what you think. Its low quality......i didnt want to draw a lot of attention to myself.

[Fallguy]

Looks like a black square

[Parrothead]

thats what it is. The text said something like "We respect the rights of our customers but unfortunately we do not allow weapons in this establishment.' The primary purpose of the picture was to show the location of the posting rather than the wording. I apologize, that wasn't clear in my post

[Fallguy]

Well while location and wording are both important....to me wording is a bit more important.

Mainly because if a sign is in the foyer or on the wall close to a door, it still might be considered at the "entrance" however if the wording isn't correct, it really doesn't matter where it is located.

[dralarms]

Outback in Cleveland has the same sign, it's in the upper corner on the wall beside the door as you go out. I stood there chatting with a waiter one day for 15 in and never saw it. and OMG we were talking about guns.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

So how do we start holding these nitwits accountable for their idiot posting jobs?