Wish list for 2011-2012 Legislative session.

[Guest db99wj]

Has anyone spoken with any of the legislatures and asked if their will be any enchancements, additions, or subtractions of the current law as it reads? If Haslam wins and being all pro-gun........at last report, he would sign it...wouldn't he?

[Guest db99wj]

I will write an email to Curry Todd and Doug Jackson. What are some key points that I need to ask? Help me form a letter. I get a response from Rep Todd every time I send something.

[Oh Shoot]

I will write an email to Curry Todd and Doug Jackson. What are some key points that I need to ask? Help me form a letter. I get a response from Rep Todd every time I send something.

1. Under existing law, 39-17-1359 says that penalty for carrying past a sign is "a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)."

However, 39-17-1352 says "The department shall suspend or revoke a handgun permit upon a showing by its records or other sufficient evidence that the permit holder ... Has violated any other provision of §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360".

2. Need to take any penalty away from carrying in posted establishments. Most states have no provision for it. The ones that do, simply allow that if asked to leave, can be charged with trespassing for non compliance. TN is the ONLY state that has a criminal penalty for carrying past a sign. And criminals aren't even charged with it, only HCP holders.

3. Desperately need for folks to be able to keep their firearms in their cars where they work. Employers are effectively denying their employees to defend themselves to and from work. This would apply to ANY employer, except for federal, I guess.

- OS

[Fallguy]

One thing would be for those without a HCP to be able to keep a handgun in their car, just like in their house. Espically since you are supposed to be able to defend and unlawful intrustion into your occupied car the same as your residence.

[Guest 270win]

I think the legislature would be able to pass a law allowing those legally able to possess firearms to have loaded handguns in cars before carrying without permits in public.

We talk about Arizona, but it has been legal for non felon adults 18 and up to carry openly firearms out there for a long time, way before there were licenses to conceal. People could also openly have loaded firearms in their car without a license and I think put the handgun loaded in the glovebox (I believe under the seat was considered concealed, it has been a while since going out there).

Some of the states surrounding Tennessee, like Georgia, MS, and Kentucky, have provisions for people to have loaded pistols in the car at all times for protection without a license.

I think as far as the signs, you probably can't get rid of the statute without people noticing, but you can cut the penalties down so much where it is almost a slap on the wrist civl penalty parking ticket.

The city/county parks should be uniform with the state parks and should not be a Class A Misdemeanor. That is very stiff for someone with a Handgun Carry Permit. If you are going to keep those signs, cut the penalty down to a failure to leave the park is a civil penalty slap on the wrist like a parking ticket.

The same penalties that apply for someone without a handgun carry permit on school property should not apply for someone WITH a handgun carry permit. We should not be subject to FELONY and Class B Misdemeanor charges. Again slap on the wrist at most civil penalty IF the state wishes to make a 'law' against it but don't slam the good guy with a handgun carry permit.

If you would do that, you'd have pretty good laws in this state, and you wouldn't have to worry about losing your gun, going to jail, getting arrested and all that crap as much. The bed wetters would still have their feel good laws but it wouldn't affect us much.

In principle, I like the idea of carrying without handgun carry permits, but I'd rather concentrate on efforts to reduce criminal penalties for those of us with permits right now. That would seem more workable in the legislature and also getting something done for folks 18 and over to have loaded handguns in cars like in Mississippi.

Edited October 29, 2010 by 270win

[Guest tnxdshooter]

One thing would be for those without a HCP to be able to keep a handgun in their car, just like in their house. Espically since you are supposed to be able to defend and unlawful intrustion into your occupied car the same as your residence.

That is the biggest issue for me. I think I saw something on the legislature website last year about it but they never got around to it before the session ended so maybe it will be on the books this year.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

I also think they need to do away with the substantially similar verbiage crap in our current guns in restaurants bill and make it to where it clearly has to state the statute or the sign isnt valid.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Looks like HB3141 died and will have to be reintroduced this year.

Tennessee General Assembly » Legislation

HB 3141 by *McDonald ( *SB 3009 by *Jackson)

Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, prohibits employers from prohibiting employees possessing a handgun carry permit from transporting and storing a firearm out of sight in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for vehicles; prohibits employer from terminating, demoting, or other discrimination against such employees. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13.

[E4 No More]

I would like constitutional carry and employers outlawed from searching your vehicle.

[Oh Shoot]

Looks like HB3141 died and will have to be reintroduced this year.

Tennessee General Assembly » Legislation

HB 3141 by *McDonald ( *SB 3009 by *Jackson)

Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, prohibits employers from prohibiting employees possessing a handgun carry permit from transporting and storing a firearm out of sight in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for vehicles; prohibits employer from terminating, demoting, or other discrimination against such employees. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13.

I see no reason why a HCP should be required to have loaded handgun in one's private vehicle, any more than in one's home.

The TN Constitution already states that we have the right to "keep and bear" arms, but that "wearing" is subject to regulation.

I do not see how having handgun protection in one's car is any more "wearing" of arms than having one in your home.

- OS

Edited October 29, 2010 by OhShoot
syntax

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I see no reason why a HCP should be required to have loaded handgun in one's private vehicle, any more than in one's home.

The TN Constitution already states that we have the right to "keep and bear" arms, but that "wearing" is subject to regulation.

I see do not see how having handgun protection in one's car is any more "wearing" of arms than having one in your home.

- OS

I agree.

[E4 No More]

I see no reason why a HCP should be required to have loaded handgun in one's private vehicle, any more than in one's home.

The TN Constitution already states that we have the right to "keep and bear" arms, but that "wearing" is subject to regulation.

I see do not see how having handgun protection in one's car is any more "wearing" of arms than having one in your home.

- OS

THAT is a very good point.

[Guest 270win]

If you wanted to get bold and protect rights from the legislature, you could change the state constitution.

Here's an idea. Add in the state constitution that people have the right to keep arms in their homes, motor vehicles, and to carry.

Louisiana has a pretty hard to argue right to keep and bear arms as far as keeping firearms in cars, houses, and carrying unconcealed out of the car and house. This approach would totally mess up the 'case law' in Tennessee, but the weapons law here stinks the way it has been on paper illegal for anyone to carry a weapon off property of his own and the case law stinks.

§11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms

S

ection 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.

[Guest 270win]

Idaho 1978: “The people have the right to keep and bear

arms, which right shall not be abridged; but this provision shall

not prevent the passage of laws to govern the carrying of

weapons concealed on the person nor prevent passage of

legislation providing minimum sentences for crimes committed

while in possession of a firearm, nor prevent the passage of

legislation providing penalties for the possession of firearms by a

convicted felon, nor prevent the passage of any legislation

punishing the use of a firearm. No law shall impose licensure,

registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession

of firearms or ammunition. Nor shall any law permit the

confiscation of firearms, except those actually used in the

commission of a felony.”21

[Guest 270win]

The Idaho one is pretty good because on the face you can't get your gun taken for a misdemeanor charge. I kind of like that. It also would get rid of that stupid ammo tax. It is pretty clear and solid. People want to strap on a handgun openly can do so for free outside the car. I'm almost positive you can have a loaded pistol in the car in Idaho without any sort of license. It is pretty obvious by the way the Idaho constitution is written. I know Louisiana's state constitution prevents schools from hammering 18 yr old college students criminally because it is a RIGHT down there to have a loaded pistol in the car.

If the TWRA Amendment to the Constitution can be passed, why can a more solid RKBA amendment not be passed for Tennessee? Bypass the legislature and make this more solid for the people.

[ttocswob]

I was in Missouri earlier this year on business. I looked it up, and was at first concerned about the long list of prohibited locations. However, most of them did not have the force of law - you could only be asked to leave, then charged with trespass only if you failed to comply.

I'd like to see carry de-criminalized in TN, at least for HCP holders.

[Guest db99wj]

Wow, this is the first thread, I didn't start...started. LOL!

I'll wait and once we get a good list of bullet points together, I'll send them. Or if someone else has a better way to contact them, please let it be known.

[Guest 270win]

Yeah Missouri is great. There is some long list, but it just makes the do gooders feel better. You can carry wherever you want, i think even schools, with a license, and not worry about going to jail.

You can also keep a pistol concealed or unconcealed anywhere in your car without a license in Missouri as an adult under state law now thankfully. You used to have to put it on the dashboard or seat for it to be unconcealed.

Carrying unconcealed up there without a license (legal under state law) is kind of wierd. When I was at UofA (only 30 minutes from MO state line), I heard that some of the towns could outlaw open carrying with a city ordinance. I have heard the cities can still outlaw open carrying on the person outside the motor vehicles.

Edited October 29, 2010 by 270win

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah Missouri...

Carrying unconcealed up there without a license (legal under state law) is kind of wierd. When I was at UofA (only 30 minutes from MO state line), I heard that some of the towns could outlaw open carrying with a city ordinance. I have heard the cities can still outlaw open carrying on the person outside the motor vehicles.

Yes, open carry is not preempted by state law, any county/city can pass an ordinance against it.

That's why it's not a "Gold Start Open Carry" state to opencarry.org.

- OS

[1gewehr]

In 39-17-1302 Delete sections (a) 6, 7, & 8, section ( 8, and section (d) 3 & 4. This deals with making it illegal for TN residents (except police and government agencies to possess a "Hoax Device", "Switchblade Knife or Knuckles", or "Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose."

A "Hoax Device" is a inoperable explosive device such as a dummy cannon shell, training device, or similar. the intent is to make it illegal to make a false bomb scare. The reality is that the act itself is illegal, but that this section of law makes training devices and deactivated shells illegal to own. To my knowledge, TN is the only state that makes ownership of a dummy mortar shell illegal.

TN defines a "Switchblade knife" as "any knife that has a blade which opens automatically by: (A) Hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle; or ( Operation of gravity or inertia". But makes exceptions for military, law enforcement, and government agencies. So my arthritic hands are not allowed to have any knife which makes it easier to operate. BTW, this would include any normal knife which has had the hinge smoothed so that it can be opened by gravity if you release the lock. This is one of those old 'Jim Crow' laws designed to be used against blacks.

"Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose." This is nowhere defined in TN statute. It is unreasonably vague and could include items as diverse as nunchucks, steel bars, and a broken rake. Let's just get rid of it.

In 39-17-1301, delete section (13). "“Restricted firearm ammunition” means any cartridge containing a bullet coated with a plastic substance with other than a lead or lead alloy core or a jacketed bullet with other than a lead or lead alloy core or a cartridge of which the bullet itself is wholly composed of a metal or metal alloy other than lead. “Restricted firearm ammunition” does not include shotgun shells or solid plastic bullets;"

This means that ALL surplus ammo with a mild steel core, or bullets containing steel, bismuth, iron, tin, or copper. Any bullet advertised as 'lead-free' is also illegal in TN. Another stupid law that should just be deleted.

In 39-17-1307, delete section (a)(1) "A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4"), or a club." I have looked and looked and cannot find a definition of "intent to go armed". I have a hard time believing that a knife blade 4.25" is dangerous, but one 3.9" is not. there are other sections that deal with illegal carry of a firearm. This one is redundant on that issue. and I personally don't have a problem with knives over 4" or clubs being carried by lawful citizens. It's already illegal for felons to go armed at all.

39-17-1351. Handgun carry permits. Why not "Weapon Carry Permits? If you have the right to carry a handgun, why not any other legal weapon? You've passed a handgun safety course, know the law about self-defense, the TBI has certified you as a non-felon. so why limit the permit to just handguns? Right now, if you have a concealed pocket knife, you are technically illegal. If you change the wording of this section, then a lawful permit-holder can legally carry a pocket knife.

In section (p)(1) it states "The department shall charge an application and processing fee of one hundred fifteen dollars ($115)". I propose it be changed to "no more than one hundred fifteen dollars ($115)". I would further add language to this section requiring a full accounting of these funds. I find it difficult to believe that TBI can do a TICS check for $10, but that a handgun permit check costs $100. I would further require that any overage in funds be used to improve and add to the TN public ranges. If the overage is more than $10, then the cost of the permit shall be reduced by $10 for subsequent years

That would be a good start for 2011!!!

[Garufa]

My wish for the next legislative session is that they do nothing concerning HCP's. The guns in "places that serve alcohol" was a fiasco. Allowing local municipalities to opt of of park carry was a fiasco. Let them take a year off and then come back and address whatever needs to be fixed. They can start with that freaking gun-buster sign, which is now legal as a direct result of the guns "in bars" bill.

[eapking]

3. Desperately need for folks to be able to keep their firearms in their cars where they work. Employers are effectively denying their employees to defend themselves to and from work. This would apply to ANY employer, except for federal, I guess.

- OS

This

[Guest tnxdshooter]

I see no reason why a HCP should be required to have loaded handgun in one's private vehicle, any more than in one's home.

The TN Constitution already states that we have the right to "keep and bear" arms, but that "wearing" is subject to regulation.

I do not see how having handgun protection in one's car is any more "wearing" of arms than having one in your home.

- OS

I totally agree but i reckon that law enforcement and the gubment see different.