Criminal Check

[Guest Eagle Eye]

Here's a question that may have been asked before:

When I buy a gun from a retailer and they do a criminal check, is that check linked to the specific gun I buy or just to me and whether they can sell me any gun?

Wondering if the government has any idea of what guns I own or just that I'm buying a gun.

Excuse my ignorance, I'm originally from Illinois where all guns are supposed to be registered (or prohibited).

[Reservoir Dog]

The gun make, model and serial number are included in the TICS check along with your info. They check to make sure the gun is not stolen. The background check records are supposedly deleted after a certain period of time (30 days, I think, but I may be wrong). There is no gun registration in TN.

[Guest Grot]

This i kinda OT but when you buy a gun from a store, it is NOT registered to you? the number in the check is just to make sure its not stolen?

[Reservoir Dog]

This i kinda OT but when you buy a gun from a store, it is NOT registered to you?

Not in Tennessee, as we do not have firearm registration. Your info and the gun info are on the Form 4473 you fill out, but that stays with the gun dealer. It only gets sent to the ATF if the dealer goes out of business.

the number in the check is just to make sure its not stolen?

In the TICS check, the firearm is checked for stolen and you are checked to make sure you can legally own a firearm.

[Jasongar8]

TICS records are purged after 48 hours. The only time ATF knows about what guns you are buying is when you buy more than one handgun in one day. Once you do that, that dealer has to fill out a form with your info and the guns info and fax or mail it to ATF and the CLEO for your area.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Not in Tennessee, as we do not have firearm registration. Your info and the gun info are on the Form 4473 you fill out, but that stays with the gun dealer. It only gets sent to the ATF if the dealer goes out of business.

That is exactly what I was told by the manager of the Great Outdoors Store in Jackson who is married to the owners daughter. He also said when the Bass Pro went out of business that they had an entire storage building full of 4473's and ATF did indeed come and pick them all up.

As for the picking up more than one gun, I have been with someone who did but there never was a mention of any additional paperwork, which sure dont mean that there wasnt any. I will know soon as I will be picking up two out of lay away and I will ask about that.

I dont know about yall but I dont even like the idea of AFT maintaining old 4473's, you have to know someone is sitting in front of computer putting all that info in every day which amounts IMO to a de-facto registration database.

[Bulldog44]

This happened to me last year.

I purchased a handgun from a local dealer and kept it a year the sold it to a friend,two years pass.

I come home from work one day find a message on my answering machine from the ATF asking me to contact them.I call the number and was told by the agent that the gun had been used in crime and that they had tracked it back to me using the serial number.The gun had change hands two times in that two years.So after three years they were still able to track it back me.

[Raoul]

This happened to me last year.

I purchased a handgun from a local dealer and kept it a year the sold it to a friend,two years pass.

I come home from work one day find a message on my answering machine from the ATF asking me to contact them.I call the number and was told by the agent that the gun had been used in crime and that they had tracked it back to me using the serial number.The gun had change hands two times in that two years.So after three years they were still able to track it back me.

That's great. Maybe that deletion takes place after 48 years...not 48 hours.

[DaveTN]

Guns are not registered in Illinois or Tennessee. However, yes records can be traced by law enforcement through purchase records.

[Jasongar8]

As for the picking up more than one gun, I have been with someone who did but there never was a mention of any additional paperwork, which sure dont mean that there wasnt any. I will know soon as I will be picking up two out of lay away and I will ask about that

Trust me, I have filled out a ton of multiple gun forms and faxed them to ATF. Most dealers don't fill out the form right there when the 4473 is done, they do them when they are booking guns out of their federal books. By law every FFL has to do this when they sell more than one handgun on the same 4473.

Also, for you guys that think that just because guns are not "registered" in TN that ATF can't find out who bought what then you would be wrong. ATF can do what they call a gun trace on every new gun sold through a FFL. Fox example, they find a Glock at a crime scene. They would call Glock and find out what distributor, if any, they sold the gun too. Then with will call the distributor and find out what FFL the gun was sold to. Then they call that FFL and request a gun trace. So the FFL will have to pull the 4473 for that gun and either call ATF and give them all the info or fax them a copy.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

GUBMENT!

[JAB]

This is my layman's understanding of the whole thing. As always, I might be wrong but here goes:

After the initial sale, it is a bit more difficult for the ATF to track a firearm. That is because, with the serial number, the manufacturer can tell the ATF which store the new firearm was shipped to and law enforcement can go to that store and go through the paper records to find who bought the gun originally. If the gun is subsequently sold or traded, even through an FFL with a TICS check and everything (unless the original buyer or someone else who knows is still alive, can be located and tells them the store to which they sold/traded it) authorities might or might not be able to track subsequent events where the firearm changed hands.

This happened to me last year.

I purchased a handgun from a local dealer and kept it a year the sold it to a friend,two years pass.

I come home from work one day find a message on my answering machine from the ATF asking me to contact them.I call the number and was told by the agent that the gun had been used in crime and that they had tracked it back to me using the serial number.The gun had change hands two times in that two years.So after three years they were still able to track it back me.

That is why I generally (but not always) prefer to purchase firearms from an FFL (a little extra insurance that it wasn't stolen somewhere along the line) and absolutely will not sell a firearm that I originally purchased from an FFL in a FTF transaction. I might trust the person to whom I sell the firearm but that doesn't mean I will know or trust the person he or she sells it to, later - or the person that buyer sells it to and so on. I want there to at least be some kind of record that I sold or traded the firearm in case something like that happens (unless I am mistaken, isn't the make/model/serial number of a trade listed on the paperwork for the firearm for which you are trading?) If a firearm I sell goes through multiple, subesquent owners and is maybe even stolen (and possibly not even reported as such) at some point, later, I don't want to have the cops, FBI or whoever coming to me ten years after I sell it and saying, "This gun was used in a murder and there is no record of anyone but you ever having owned it." Paranoid? Maybe - but, as with carrying a firearm, I prefer the term, "Cautious."

Edited October 29, 2010 by JAB

[DaveTN]

" Paranoid?

Probably, but we can’t answer that question without you saying what you think is going to happen after that conversation.

I go through guns like crazy; it is my hobby. I obey the laws governing the transfer of firearms. Do I run the risk of being arrested for a crime I did not commit simply because a gun I owned is linked to that crime? Absolutely not; that is preposterous. The biggest risk I take is losing a gun that comes back stolen if an FFL transfer is involved. I can take that risk.

Buy and sell them as you wish. Do what the law requires and enjoy our hobby.

[Guest rsgillmd]

Quick question on a related but tangential aspect of criminal checks. Why is it that the TICS background check takes less than 10 minutes and I don't need to be fingerprinted, but background checks for permits require fingerprinting and take longer? What does FBI do that TICS doesn't?

[Fallguy]

Quick question on a related but tangential aspect of criminal checks. Why is it that the TICS background check takes less than 10 minutes and I don't need to be fingerprinted, but background checks for permits require fingerprinting and take longer? What does FBI do that TICS doesn't?

Well one reason background checks for HCP take longer is because they also send a copy of your application to the Sheriff of the county you live in to see if they know of any reason you should be denied. The Sheriff has 30 days to respond.

[DaveTN]

The FBI doesn’t do anything more. I think the Department of Safety does a more in-depth background check.