4 pros share some ideas on home defense, equip, tactics

[graycrait]

4 friends of mine share what they think they need for home defense or other emergencies. Craig

(Charles is a major city police sergeant I met a couple of months ago),

I agree with your FBI guy...a handgun for home defense, as well as person defense out in public, is always your best bet. You must also carry your weapon in a quality rig and with a beefy belt...not your typical 1" dress belt, as that will fail you when you need it the most. But you have to be prepared if you encounter a threat. In other words, extra mag(s), and cuffs to detain the dirtbag. Of these accessories, an extra mag would be most important. I just went through "active killer" training with simunitions this past week. It was amazing how quick ammo went when you have an active shooter that you are trying to neutralize.

Another viable option for home defense would be a 14" 870, with a single point sling, like the one I carry around. This allows you to carry the maximum firepower(of course with a side saddle attached), and at the same time allows you to just drop the 870 and it will stay hung at the low ready if you need to cuff, give medical attention or whatever you might need to do with your hands...and pick it right back up if you need to engage another suspect. A shorty shotgun does not give you an option to sling it nor does it give you needed ammo...as you only get 3 or 4 rds, tops. With a shorty, you better hope there is only one dirtbag and it only takes you a couple of shots to neutralize him. My newest home defense weapon is the Vector V51, with a green laser...the ultimate in home protection!(WAY overkill). I'd actually only use this if there was no one else home at the time.

Whatever you do, practice is key to muscle memory and possibly your survival. Always be thinking of "what ifs" as you are walking through the mall or out in public. Also, when you engage a bad guy and put him down, ensure that all around you realize that you are the good guy, or you will get shot by other good guys or responding PD...just something else to think about.

Just my .02,

Charles

(Ex-Army, Ex-PD officer, now FBI)

I agree with you completely, though I'd strongly suggest a Glock 19/17/34 with a X400 (TLR2 for the thrifty). G17 or bigger mag (not a G18 - maybe a USPSA extension mag to push it to 21rds).

I'd pair it with a Blade-Tech holster on a 2" Belt (mine is Blackhawk), with one+ spare mag, flashlight (in addition to the weaponlight), small blow out kit (tourniquet and OLAES bandage) handcuff case with steel cuffs, and a pouch that fits my personal cell phone, designed to fit comfortably over your jammies. That is a home defense kit, not a shorty 12. The reason your friend probably liked the shorty is because he ran a "house" course that didn't involve having to "buy" the guy he shot (can't go hunting for targets after you shoot a guy unless he is obviously dead, and even then it is suspect) provide aid (to self or even the bad guy), stay on with 9-1-1, secure a shot guy who is being a prick, or secure a guy who was compliant. A handgun gives you the option to reholster, work one-handed, etc. The shorty shotgun, while mean and badass, is more a specialist's gun.

Basically, we like what we like. I go to a shooting school, I don't want to shoot three rounds and babysit cardboard at gunpoint, which is what the real world is. I do want to blast the **** out of cardboard with a shredding 12 gauge. So I think $200 for a tax stamp is worth it, at least for a month.

Knowing what I know and what training I've received, the set up above is the ideal option. Screw the 12 gauge and focus on the pistol. I have at my disposal a 14" 870, 14" M4, Glocks, 1911s, MP5, etc. I keep either a 1911 or a Glock on the nightstand and a partner in bed who has a phone and knows how to call dispatch. If I was living alone I'd build another belt as described above (my work belt is similar) and keep my G19 w/ X200 and G17 Mag on the nightstand. I admit I keep an 18" 870 in the corner but it wouldn't move unless She took it after I moved out.

(Active Army guy with lots of deployments)

Interesting conversation. I'd like to add my two cents. I also keep a "go-bag" in the event of a disaster emergency. I also have a smaller defensive bag with items similar to what is listed. I like the idea of the flash drive with important documents...I'll add that. Here's my disaster bag.

It's a Osprey backpack (5400 cu in.) with the following:

Two-person tent (5lbs)

Army bivy system (gortex shell, patrol & intermediate bags)

Water purifier ("first need XL", 16oz, purifies to .01 micron-virus,bacteria,cysts)

multi-tool

three days supply of food

emergency radio (light weight, crank operated)

signal devices (VS-17 panel, mirror, strobe light)

hand axe

camelback, 2qt canteen, nalgene bottle

first aid kit (army quick tourniquet, army pressure dressings, various bandages, scissors, anti-biotic ointment, gauze, snake bit kit, alcohol wipes, gloves, surgical tape, cravat)

Surefire flashlight w/ spare batteries & headlamp light (hands free)

waterproof notepad and mechanical pencil

550 cord

MSR "whisper light" international burner (15oz) w/ one bottle of fuel (white gas, diesel, unleaded fuel capable)

small zip lock bag w/ waterproof matches, zippo lighter, and dryer lint (help start fires)

compass

small towel

space blanket

fishing line and hooks

lightweight rain jacket

Of course, my HK .45 pistol and M4 w/ 12ea loaded mags. are coming with me.

Mike

(Retired Army)

Craig, My bedside outfit is a combo of yours and your friends. Based upon your suggestion I added an extra set of car keys and now based upon your friend's advice I'll add a pair of steel S&W handcuffs that I traded a haircut for a couple of years ago. Each of our cars are outfitted with much more extensive kits (rucksacks).

I still have my 12ga next to the bed. I've shot several hundred rounds on the course (mostly low recoil 00-buck) since outfitting it with a Gunslinger sling and a laser/light combo thingy. I don't really use the laser but thought I may use this thing on a pistol at some point if I ever get one with a Picatinny rail. I can use both hands, climb, crawl, etc. wearing a slung shotgun and rapidly transition from shotgun to pistol, etc. When cinched up real tight the Gunslinger makes unsupported offhand shooting rock solid. Your friend is probably correct and I'll probably never need the gun or the kind of proficiency I've developed but I'm glad I have both.

My bedside (home defense) kit is contained in a Maxpedition Manta bag hanging on the headboard.

- an army bandage & a fancy quick clot bandage

- Surefire Backup flashlight

- cell phone

- spare eyeglasses

- a cheapo flash drive containing PDF images of all important documents, passports, DLs, Class III stamp, Concealed Carry Permits, Insurance policies, deed to house, car titles, extra passport photos, etc.

- P230 with one spare magazine

- extra set of house & car keys

- cuffs (when I dig those out of the garage)

- leatherman tool

- extra 12ga ammo: 2 rifled slugs, 2 BB, 2 00-buck

- pencil & notepad

The goofiest things I have in my bag are a pair of those neoprene slip-on swim/surf shoes and some cheap thin leather gloves. Having chased a burglar 6 blocks from my mother's house next door to mine through yards and over fences while barefoot taught me a lesson. I was wearing nothing but a swim suit that day and when I caught him that's all I brought to the fight. Wish I'd had a grab bag that day. He broke out of state prison not too long ago but they caught him within a week or so and he's back in the joint. Meth is whack.

[Guest cheez]

Some pretty good thoughts here. I have never thought of having handcuffs but that is a real good idea.

[Fallguy]

Well I think the mention of handcuffs were because they were/are LE.

Many think handcuffs carried by non-LE is a bit mall-ninja like.

[I_Like_Pie]

Many think handcuffs carried by non-LE is a bit mall-ninja like.

Most of the advice there isn't practical either...In non-LE defense situation? is it really practical to bring knifes handcuffs and recessitation kits? Not sure what these guys are offering with respect to useful advice.

My idea for self defense, home defense in particular, is anything readily accessible that prevents harm to my family and can destroy anything that threatens my safety.

Trimmed landscaping, deadbolts, alarms, dogs, common sense prevention and being observant is 90% of the game....these guys seem to offer typical S-O-F opinions only on tactical stuff.

Just didn't seem to be an honest, well rounded discussion IMHO. More along the lines of a conversation at a coffee pot with people that only talk about guns...I mean that is the only thing that they talk about....incapable of anything else

[partypilot1]

I strongly recomend NOT carrying handcuffs unless you are LEO, plastic zip-tie maybe. Be advised, detaining somebody is, most likely, a poor option when your main goal is safety and separating yourself/family from a threat.

[LagerHead]

I strongly recomend NOT carrying handcuffs unless you are LEO, plastic zip-tie maybe. Be advised, detaining somebody is, most likely, a poor option when your main goal is safety and separating yourself/family from a threat.

I gotta say I'm with you on that. Most civilians have not been trained on how to properly detain/restrain a bad guy. Doing so improperly against someone playing possum will get you killed very quickly. I think your best bet is to keep your gun on him and, if alone, just watch your back. If not alone either have the other person check the area for more bad guys or hold their gun on him while you do.

[creeky]

Trimmed landscaping, deadbolts, alarms, dogs, common sense prevention and being observant is 90% of the game...

Yeah... there is a lot you can do to your home on a Saturday and $50-$100 bucks worth of stuff from Home Depot that would serve you well. Not stop someone from getting in, but very able to slow them down and cause them to be louder than they would want to be.

[Warbird]

The high percentage of criminals with communicable diseases, many being drug addicts, ensures I would not try any sort of medical assistance on anyone I just shot in self defense. Not to mention if they aren't dead they are still a threat. I want no part of their bodily fluids.

Some good info in there along with a lot of not so good info and some downright bad advice.

[Guest chaplain tom]

It did sound a bit like rent-a-cop advise for maybe an armed security guard or the like. NOT for the average civilian to be getting involved in. If I'm in a self defense situation, I want to shoot the BG until he's not a threat anymore which probably means first aid aint going to work anyway, and detaining him has already been accomplished without having to touch him.

Edited October 29, 2010 by chaplain tom

[graycrait]

It did sound a bit like rent-a-cop advise for maybe an armed security guard or the like.

Many think handcuffs carried by non-LE is a bit mall-ninja like.

Most of the advice there isn't practical either

with a lot of not so good info and some downright bad advice.

Interesting comments. I'll pass them along. Fellas gotta agree to disagree or no one learns anything.

Craig

[Kevo]

I count on having an extremely small area to defend while the police and ambulances are on the way. I believe those gentlemen aren't taking ANYTHING for granted.

[TNWNGR]

Weapon’s and home defense tactics and method’s go back to the first cave man and his handy dandy rock, club or flint knife and progressed forward. The first step in the here and now is to have a plan and the skill sets to implement and follow through with it. The most expensive gun you can buy will not protect you any better from a thug who out thinks you than a sling shot would. The bottom line is keep things simple; don’t go overboard on tactical gear and bags that will cost you time by putting on or grabbing.

A good flashlight and revolver or pistol coupled with a superior knowledge of your homes layout place you in a strong protective stance. In addition to these would be either a cordless phone or cell phone for calling the police. It is not your responsibility to clear your house if intruders have entered, but instead you should go to ground in a safe room while awaiting help. If your children are in the house, than their room may very well be where you or your spouse goes to ground in while providing protection.

Home invasions differ from burglaries in that a burglar does not seek a confrontation and will attempt to flee if encountered, if so let them go, it’s the safest route. A home invasion is generally done by someone having knowledge of you, your house and what they’re going after is. They go in by force and continue to use force through the course of the incident.

All of the comments pertaining to first aid equipment and gear are humorous to me because the likelihood of you being able to do much more than cover a wound with a towel isn’t likely in most incidents. Have what you need close at hand by all means but don’t mislead yourself into believing you’ll be able to use all of it in a real world situation is pretty slim.

Of all the things you can have with you though the most important is the strong mindset that you can prevail and win if forced into a role of protecting your family and yourself while inside of your home. That more than any other tool or piece of equipment is what will carry you through to a successful conclusion of the incident.

Edited November 2, 2010 by TNWNGR

[bigwakes]

I think everyone needs a plan. I thought it was interesting to hear the plans of LEO's. I think as a civilian, my plan is to grab the bed side pistol with Laser/ light and guard the hall that leads from all outside doors to all bedroom doors. As long as my family is behind me and my pistol we should be fine. I'm not putting my life and my families lives in danger to run down stairs and protect a TV or clear the house. I secure the hall while the wife calls 911. Be sure you have a plan though.

[partypilot1]

It's valid to note that everything you equip your house with might end up in the hands of the intruder. In my younger years I used to keep a loaded shotgun in the corner of my bedroom for emergencies. One friday night I walked in my duplex to find a person in my den stealing my roommates' receiver. When the dust settled , I was truly lucky that he never made it up to my room, he probably would have shot me in self defense. When fight or flight kicked in, I truly thought he was trying to kill me so I, in turn, was trying to kill him for my survival. My response was not the way I typically handle situations, I'm usually calm and cool headed and if I could plan the event I would have just walked out the door and called the police but that wasn't the case. It took awhile to be able reflect on the situation and in doing so, I learned from my errors.

1-Situational Awareness is everything

2-"Non" conventional weapons (ie lamp, broom stick) are a lifesaver, know where one is in every room in the house and how you would use it

3-A loaded weapon is great if you are standing behind it, crappy if the guy who broke in is standing behind it. If you leave your house, take the time to lock them up or unload them

4-Make security a habit, try not to store something here, now there, now somewhere else. Always have a reliable, go-to plan, or spot or stashed gun.

When something occurs, it will happen fast and you will probably be slightly behind the curve. The best way to try to catch-up is making your security plan an instinctive reaction. They will have the upper hand in the beginning of the encounter with surprise (based on the CQB rule of Speed, Surprise, and Violence of Action) but you can hopefully overcome your adversary with Speed.

[Warbird]

No offense to the OP, but I will also note that I do not consider someone a "Pro" on home defense, self defense, tactics or gear just because they are a LEO or military. A pro is someone who spends consider time researching, analyzing and debating many issues. They are often people who have spent extensive time training and training others. They have some gravitas in that they are proven in their field and often have put their beliefs to the test.

The fact is most military people spend their time gaining knowledge in military tactics and gear. Some of them gain additional knowledge as security operators, a specialized field in itself. Most LEO's are astonishingly lacking in firearms knowledge in general and clueless in citizen defense. Don't confuse the LEO's you see on TGO and other gun boards, who obviously are the exception to today's rule. This is well borne out when you compare uninformed LEO's, who train citizens around this state who we have all heard stories about giving horrid advice, with the great knowledge you get from a number of the TGO member LEO's. There are also a number of other great schools around the state who are run by LEO's. Many other LEO are not at all interested in guns and have little knowledge, or skills sadly. The fact that cops need more gun training and more emphasis within departments on it is another debate for another thread. This is not an insult to military or LEO. Those who have gained additional training as well as informed themselves of citizen issues are among the very best of trainers and experts you will ever find. And many of them have truly had to put their beliefs and training to the test.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Warbird