Another Night shooting question..

[Guest mds3d]

I didn't get to ask the question in another thread. If I missed the answer somewhere, or this is inappropriate, please just close this one.

Is there a legal difference between defense of property (farm animals) and hunting in regards to the law on night hunting?

Here is the reason I ask. A couple of years ago, my Mother-in-Law had goats. She had a couple of instances where something had gotten in during the night and killed a couple. We had figured that is was one of the dogs that roamed the area, so we sat out one night to watch. It turned out that it was a yote instead of one of the dogs. At the time I was unsure of the law so I made the decision to scare the animal off instead of shooting him. He did come back, but the goats were gone soon after that incident, so we didn't have to worry about it much more.

Would I have been in conflict with the law if I shot him? I never have been able to find the answer.

For reference: We had done nothing extra to bait anything from coming. I was armed with a .22WMR bolt action rifle, my GF had nothing but a thermos of coffee. I was using open sights on a moon lit night. (It was probably 1:30AM)

Thanks.

[DaveS]

If anything attacks my goats and chickens at night, it's going to die! I think there is a difference between shooting a yote at night with a shotgun, opposed to having your rifle rigged out with "night scopes" and "spotlights". It all boils down to if your neighbors call the sherriff after they hear the gunshots or not!

[ShaunM]

If anything attacks my goats and chickens at night, it's going to die! I think there is a difference between shooting a yote at night with a shotgun, opposed to having your rifle rigged out with "night scopes" and "spotlights". It all boils down to if your neighbors call the sherriff after they hear the gunshots or not!

I agree but I don't think I would sit out with a gun and light and wait on them, that could be consider hunting. I would call the TWRA law enforcement division and ask them.

[kb4ns]

I agree but I don't think I would sit out with a gun and light and wait on them, that could be consider hunting. I would call the TWRA law enforcement division and ask them.

TWRA LE Division

615-781-6580

[ShaunM]

TWRA LE Division

615-781-6580

I knew I was for getting something.

[DaveTN]

If it’s on your property I believe you have the right to protect livestock from predators.

I’m not going to try to look it up, but I think the law may specifically address that.

I don’t know if I would be legal or not (but I think it is), but if a yote went after my dog; I would drop him, and I live in the city.

[ShaunM]

If it’s on your property I believe you have the right to protect livestock from predators.

I’m not going to try to look it up, but I think the law may specifically address that.

I don’t know if I would be legal or not (but I think it is), but if a yote went after my dog; I would drop him, and I live in the city.

You would just have to be extra careful when shooting in the cities due to houses being very close.

[DaveTN]

You would just have to be extra careful when shooting in the cities due to houses being very close.

Thats a given, whether I’m shooting four legged or two legged predators.

[ShaunM]

Thats a given, whether I’m shooting four legged or two legged predators.

HA HA HA I'm pretty sure you knew that but for those of them that didn't, I figured I would mention it.

[JAB]

Tennessee Code Annotated, via Michie's:

70-4-115. Destruction and disposal of wildlife — Permit — Penalty. —

(a) The owner of lands may destroy any wild animals, wild birds, or wild fowl when such wild animals, wild birds, or wild fowl are destroying property upon such lands. Any person, before destroying any big game under the conditions provided for in this section, is required to obtain a permit for destroying such big game. Such permit shall be issued by an officer of the wildlife resources agency.

Coyote are listed under 'small game' on the TWRA website.

[seez52]

doesn't really mention day or night, hum.

[DaveS]

From the Tennessee hunting regulations

"Illegal methods"

"Firearms or archery equipment with any device utilizing an artificial light capable of locating wildlife. Night vision scopes are illegal."

[seez52]

this isn't a hunting thread, either

[memphismason]

this isn't a hunting thread, either

We have already made the decision that it is close enough related that it is ok. But thanks for your concern.

[memphismason]

Everyone keeps quoting "Hunting Regulations", but protection of Property from animals should not be consideried, "Hunting".

I am saying, I can own a rifle with a night vision scope if I want, as long as I do not "hunt" with it. - Right?

I can see a very gray line that we are all talking about.

[seez52]

Everyone keeps quoting "Hunting Regulations", but protection of Property from animals should not be consideried, "Hunting".

I am saying, I can own a rifle with a night vision scope if I want, as long as I do not "hunt" with it. - Right?

I can see a very gray line that we are all talking about.

my point exactly. this thread is not about hunting. The closed thread was never about hunting.

[memphismason]

my point exactly. this thread is not about hunting. The closed thread was never about hunting.

Well why don't you go ahead and close this one down for everyone.

[Guest mds3d]

I think I have gotten a lot of great answers to my questions. Thanks.

BTW, I think a thread about what is and is not hunting probably belongs here more than anywhere else.

I think an overall question would be: Are their situations where taking of game animals may not be considered "hunting?" and do any of the regulations normally directed at "hunting" apply in these situations?

First answer seems to be "yes."

Still not sure of the second answer.

[seez52]

thank you mds3d for reminding everyone here of what this thread (and the one I started and was subsequently closed) is all about. Yes it needs to be in this forum. And no the thread is not about hunting per-say, it's about the elimination of pests and predators that are affecting the well being of our livestock and or domestic animals and property.

No one on this forum including myself would ever advocate or engage in night hunting as it is strictly forbidden with the exception of coon hunting. Night time illumination devices are likewise verboten as we've been reminded.

The discussion here is the safe and effective elimination of pests preying on personal property or livestock. I emphasis SAFE. And that's my main reason for engaging in this discussion. The last thing I want to do (other than being accused of hunting at night) would be accidentally shooting something I shouldn't have while trying to protect my property. So the real meat here (no pun intended) is to discuss the best way to effectively and safely dispatch wild animals that are a nuisance. A discussion of methods and equipment to that end would seem appropriate.

[gregintenn]

1/2 hour before sunrise until 1/2 hour after sunset.

That being said, I will protect my property; law be damned.

[memphismason]

1/2 hour before sunrise until 1/2 hour after sunset.

That being said, I will protect my property; law be damned.

That law is for hunting, not protecting one's property.

[JAB]

Once, again:

Tennessee Code Annotated, via Michie's:

70-4-115. Destruction and disposal of wildlife — Permit — Penalty. —

(a) The owner of lands may destroy any wild animals, wild birds, or wild fowl when such wild animals, wild birds, or wild fowl are destroying property upon such lands. Any person, before destroying any big game under the conditions provided for in this section, is required to obtain a permit for destroying such big game. Such permit shall be issued by an officer of the wildlife resources agency.

Coyote are listed under 'small game' on the TWRA website.

I am not a lawyer but notice that there is no indication that hunting licenses, seasons, or other such hunting regulations apply. There is mention of a required permit for destroying big game. It would seem, however, that even such a permit is not needed to destroy small game such as coyote. What it does say is that, "The owner of lands may destroy any wild animals, wild birds, or wild fowl when such wild animals, wild birds, or wild fowl are destroying property upon such lands." If, for instance, coyotes are killing your goats (therefore destroying your property) at night then it would seem logical that this would allow you to destroy the coyotes "when...such wild animals...are destroying property", i.e. at night.

[seez52]

JAB, you make an excellent point and well referenced.

Unfortunately I missed another yote yesterday morning, too dark to see the cross hairs in my scope. Two of them were together about 60+ yds from my back door. Dogs were having a fit, didn't seem to phase the yotes.

[ShaunM]

Just remember if your going to shoot at a coyote it has to be during legal hours and with legal equipment and you must have a small game license. This is different than say if he was attacking your animals and you shoot it to protect them. You can't just shoot them illegally if you see them then it wouldn't be justifiable self defense or you can't say I was protecting my animals.

[DaveS]

There are a lot of gray areas on this subject. I think to shoot the yotes "to protect" your stock, they must be actually attacking your stock at the time. I don't think just going out to hunt/shoot them qualifies as "defending" your animals, and all laws would pertain to such. As a wildlife officer, one would look at "letter of the law", "circumstances" and lastley, "intent". What the law "says", What are the "circumstances" and what was your "intent". Alot to think about.