Modified or non-stock carry handguns

[MikePapa1]

Folks like me can make anyone look bad. The key is not to make it too easy.

[Garufa]

I'll give ya'll an example of a justifiable shoot that is a mess for the police officers involved in a state that does give some civil protection like Tennessee since the early 1980's.

A teenager was killed probably a couple years ago in West Memphis, AR by police who believed the teenager pointed a weapon at them. The teenager had a toy gun. If I recall the shooting was also in poor light. The officers believed the teenager posed a threat and stopped the threat. AR State Police and another county prosecutor were brought in to avoid bias and said this was a justifiable homicide, so no criminal charges. I believe even the feds investigated the shooting and again basically justifiable homicide.

Now, a fed court has cleared way for this boy's family to proceed in civil court against West Memphis PD and I'm sure individually the officers involved. The city i'm sure is seen as a 'deep pocket'. It will be interesting to see what happens with the whole mess.

Great big huge difference with a case like that. It involves law enforcement officers, not your average HCP holder.

[Guest carbonarcher]

HAHAHA!! Pretty funny! I just don't wish to be the one in the chair being cross examined for modifications! LOL! Have fun with buba! LOL

[Guest carbonarcher]

AGAIN, MY OPINION,

What is wrong with a box stock glock 19, xd,sig, H&K, colt 1911 or any of the other makes? NOTHING!

Get what fits your hand and you can use the pistol in a practical manner! I can't believe that there has been this much silence? from this board? You have glasers, powerballs and all these new polymer filled jhp that are more efficeitive then the original. I have just been trying to explain to you all, I am not from TN, I am PROUD to BE A PART of this GREAT STATE! The rest of the country is thinking this way! I hope that some of you have gone to the BECK ralley!

So we can stop all this!

MY TWO CENTS

[JReedEsq]

Jreed esq.

I am sorry if I offened you! I do thank you for your insight and your thoughts. I think that we are all forgeting here, we are all airing our .02cents. That is all nothing less nothing more. You do what your wish to do and I will do what I wish to do! AGAIN, THANK GOD FOR TGO, WHERE WE GET TO GIVE OUR OPIOIONS WITH OUT BEING ATTACKED! I am glad I joined and got to get all of the sage information from our contributitors. Thanks to you all! I will look at all of your contribuitutions and apologize again for making anyone ANGRY OR OFFENDING THEM!

Being new to Tennessee I expect this from where I came from, not from all of the wonderful people that have helped to educate me and help me navigate this state that I am new to.

Thank you all for your help

I am greatful!

Not trying to attack you at all. Just trying to make a point that you really should be careful about stereotypes. You made a blatantly ignorant comment about an entire profession. That is not a personal attack. I've seen police officers that I despise. I've seen police officers that I think are the some of the greatest people I could ever hope to meet. I've found I get along with them better with them if I assume they could be the latter instead of the former. To the point of the post, I agree with Mike's comments that it is probably a good idea to use a stock gun and stock ammo.

[Garufa]

Dude, chill.

Not you Esquire but Archer.

[JReedEsq]

Is there rules to protocol for our members?

Before you get to the rules of protocol, why don't you start with the rules of grammer.

[JReedEsq]

Dude, chill.

Check all my previous posts. I don't do personal attacks. I'm just pointing out that it's not a good idea to make ill-informed generalizations about an entire profession based on the actions of a small minority. Just trying to inform and educate. When people use the term "trial lawyers" it means lawyers who litigate. Those of us who go to Court and argue cases. It does not mean anything about their political ideology. This is Tennessee. I know way more conservative lawyers than liberal ones and more and more lawyers I know have an HCP. I'm just trying to offer some helpful information.

Edited October 29, 2010 by JReedEsq

[JReedEsq]

Back to the point of this post. I agree with Mike that probably any factory ammo is fine. I would lean toward carrying whatever JHP that your local PD uses instead of going with a non-HP defensive ammo.

[packingvol]

Back to the point of this post. I agree with Mike that probably any factory ammo is fine. I would lean toward carrying whatever JHP that your local PD uses instead of going with a non-HP defensive ammo.

Since the course of this discussion has meandered to include ammo, what is the consensus regarding the use of something like Winchester Ranger, which is marked on the box "For LE Use Only, Not for Retail Sale"? Many sellers of this ammo will not sell to non LE, but this is a Winchester "restriction" and not a state-imposed one.

This gets me back to thinking about my current EDC rig: a "non-registered" G27 (40cal) with an aftermarket 357 SIG barrel and Winchester Ranger ammo...

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Carbon Archer from post 19:

"Sorry guys, being once bitten twice shy! I know that this doesn't apply hear! Maybe some insight! My brother inlaw is a patent attorney, West Point grad. We both grew up in North Jersey,(I know!) We have had this debate over and over again! I don't know if you all know what it takes to be a patent lawer, (I didn't) graduating from West Point with a degree in electrical engenerring, then law school, and then patent law. He also worked with Glock to help other companys from copying there patent, going back I think it may have been S&W with the sigma. (If my memory serves) He knew that I was a far right wing guy who competed with 1911's he always said, "Don't use a pistol that you modified for competition for self defense!" He told me that the trial sharks will have a field day with that, even if you were in the right!

Then I questioned- "Why did you modify your pistol?" "Were you looking to get into a confrentation?" "Where you looking for someone to break into your house, or threaten you? So you could "Get them" ?

After that, He reminded me that the majority of trial sharks are left wing libs. looking to get a civial suit to get all kind of money, hense What was his name from South Carolina who cheated on his wife with cancer? John.....? He also reminded me that you may have been right in your defense of your self and your family, all it takes is one shred for the shark to blow out of the water to get you for the rest of your life, even if you were in the right!

I had another debate about the ammo! Hollow point or polymer filled tip?

Go with the filled tip, I use Power ball! Again as he said, in the court of law, why did you use a hollow point? Were you looking to kill some one?

As his studies have been stated, he testified that the polymer tiped ammo are the best on the market!

1. Shark can't call them a hollow point!

2. They work better, especially with heavy clothing!

3. Power ball and glasers are made to dump all there energy into a wall or something. So that they can not penitrate a wall and hit someone else.

This establishes that you are safety concerened!

Ok!

Keep it Stock! Keep you comp guns for play! Don't carry them! You may be right in the court with criminal charges, not with civial suits!!

Ok, my 2 cents and off the soap box!

Sorry for the rant!

I would hate to see anything happen to a good person doing the right thing and a money hungery shark comes along and takes everything away, because you had a trigger job!"

Where the hell do you get the idea that most trial lawyers are "libs" and "sharks"? Aren't you forgetting that most of us are small business owners? How about the fact that it takes a lawyer to argue against every lawsuit you disagree with? I hate to say you don't know what you are talking about but the garbage you are spewing is just about as ignorant as the folks that believe every LEO is out to violate their rights, or every HCP holder is a trigger-happy nut-job just waiting to shoot up a school.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm I thought hollow points penetrate less than fmj so therefore if you are really thinking about others safety then you should use the hollow points so as not to over penetrate and kill innocents.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm I thought hollow points penetrate less than fmj so therefore if you are really thinking about others safety then you should use the hollow points so as not to over penetrate and kill innocents.

Also,

How can they find out that I have had a trigger job and barrel refitting unless I open my big mouth for them?

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Oh, now you done it.

So since TCA says in plain black and white that you are "immune" from a civil suit if your shooting was deemed to be justified, wouldn't it be illegal to even file a civil suit?

I personally don't worry about it. I carry what I want, how I want. Like the old cliche goes, I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.

You would think so but when have you ever known the state and feds to follow the law?

[Fallguy]

Also,

How can they find out that I have had a trigger job and barrel refitting unless I open my big mouth for them?

Something I've wondered myself....

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Something I've wondered myself....

Exactly, that is why if you ever get arrested your answer for every question should be I have nothing to say.

Then eventually ask for an attorney if you start wearing down. LOL

Although me personally I would ask for an attorney straight away and keep my mouth shut until he arrived and advised me as to what to say or not say. I would also make doubly sure that I used the line "I was in fear for my life" if ever in a self defense situation.

[Guest carbonarcher]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm I thought hollow points penetrate less than fmj so therefore if you are really thinking about others safety then you should use the hollow points so as not to over penetrate and kill innocents.

tnxdshooter,

Your right, at least all that I have read, that is why I use Power ball or Critical defense loads.

I don't know the answer to this question, that being said I am asking some of the officers of the courts to chime in,

If GOD FORBID, you are involved in a situation, will the police take your firearm?

[Reservoir Dog]

Also,

How can they find out that I have had a trigger job and barrel refitting unless I open my big mouth for them?

Because a good prosecutor or civil attorney will have every piece of evidence examined. Firearm techs from the police crime labs can tell if a gun has non-factory parts, or if existing parts have been altered. Also, attorneys can (and will) subpoena the firearm manufacturer to examine your firearm and report on any non-factory alterations.

[Fallguy]

Because a good prosecutor or civil attorney will have every piece of evidence examined. Firearm techs from the police crime labs can tell if a gun has non-factory parts, or if existing parts have been altered. Also, attorneys can (and will) subpoena the firearm manufacturer to examine your firearm and report on any non-factory alterations.

Yes...all these things can happen.

But if an attorney of this caliber is willing to take the case in which if he looses his clients not only don't get anything, but are required to pay your expenses for defending the lawsuit, it probably wasn't a clear cut good shoot and maybe you shouldn't have fired in the first place and may deserve what happens next......

[JReedEsq]

tnxdshooter,

I don't know the answer to this question, that being said I am asking some of the officers of the courts to chime in,

If GOD FORBID, you are involved in a situation, will the police take your firearm?

Generally, yes.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Yes...all these things can happen.

But if an attorney of this caliber is willing to take the case in which if he looses his clients not only don't get anything, but are required to pay your expenses for defending the lawsuit, it probably wasn't a clear cut good shoot and maybe you shouldn't have fired in the first place and may deserve what happens next......

Exactly, let em sue me, I dont have a job, I dont have a home, I got an old car, and dont have any money. You cant bleed blood from a turnip.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Generally, yes.

I think they take it initially right JREED? and then if you are in the clear you get your weapon back.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Exactly, let em sue me, I dont have a job, I dont have a home, I got an old car, and dont have any money. You cant bleed blood from a turnip.

It would be kind of ignorant to sue someone with no assets LOL.

[JReedEsq]

I think they take it initially right JREED? and then if you are in the clear you get your weapon back.

YUP

[MikePapa1]

Also,

How can they find out that I have had a trigger job and barrel refitting unless I open my big mouth for them?

In civil cases, it is called "Discovery." They can find out everything you ever did, ever bought and ever thought about. It is a very intrusive process.

[Patton]

What about the thousands of keltecs with fluff and buffs?