Without Permit decal

[Guest GlockenVol]

First post. Hope this is the right forum. My question is could we ask a company with a gun busters decal to put over it "Without Permit" to allow a HCP to carry on the premises.

[bigwakes]

My guess is if they have the decal they don't care if you have a permit. If you find someone willing to do that tell them to just remove the sticker, because it's already illegal to carry with no permit.

Welcome to TGO.

[Guest clownsdd]

Pretty good idea. Might turn some heads.

Welcome to TGO. Someone needs to give it a try. What is there to loose?

[gregintenn]

You could always ask, but what you will likely find is a apethetic, ignorant, media brainwashed drone that thinks that "guns are bad". Rarely do those postings go up by accident. They don't understand that the person who ignores the sign is the one they need to worry about. Those signs do little but create a "fish in a barrel" situation.

[Fallguy]

I really don't see the purpose.

The law prohibits anyone from carrying without a HCP, the only purpose for the gunbuster sign is to prevent HCP holders from carry. So if they have done that, why would they allow them to carry?

If the did change their mind, all they need to do is remove the sign...not post an additional one stating an exception.

[Oh Shoot]

First post. Hope this is the right forum. My question is could we ask a company with a gun busters decal to put over it "Without Permit" to allow a HCP to carry on the premises.

Dude, they only put them up when it became lawful for HCP holders to carry there, so we can assume that's who they want disarmed.

- OS

[Guest drv2fst]

Don't assume anything about what their intentions really are. I am often surprised at the incorrect conclusions that people arrive at based on bad information. For example: Yesterday an employee (college educated software developer) stated that he "could not vote for Haslam because Haslam wanted to allow anyone to buy guns without a permit". I corrected him and stated that having a carry permit has nothing to do with buying a gun. He did not know the difference between the requirements to buy a gun vs carry one. People are often very confused about the facts and therefore draw the wrong conclusion. I did not advise him on who to vote for. In my opinion there is no good choice, only bad ones. The trick in voting these days is deciding which particular incarnation of evil you can live with for a while.

[True Grit]

Don't bother. Those pinheads already made up their minds when they posted.

[Guest drv2fst]

Don't bother. Those pinheads already made up their minds when they posted.

Bad attitude. How will we show them the light if we assume that they cannot be retrained? The only thing wrong with many of them is that they listened to the wrong message. Enough repetitions of the correct message will retrain them. Business owners listen to their customers (or don't last).

[Fallguy]

Don't assume anything about what their intentions really are. I am often surprised at the incorrect conclusions that people arrive at based on bad information. For example: Yesterday an employee (college educated software developer) stated that he "could not vote for Haslam because Haslam wanted to allow anyone to buy guns without a permit". I corrected him and stated that having a carry permit has nothing to do with buying a gun. He did not know the difference between the requirements to buy a gun vs carry one. People are often very confused about the facts and therefore draw the wrong conclusion. I did not advise him on who to vote for. In my opinion there is no good choice, only bad ones. The trick in voting these days is deciding which particular incarnation of evil you can live with for a while.

I agree people can can half-baked ideas based on not having all the facts.

But it seems to me posting your business to prevent the carry of firearms is a fairly straight foward thing. I mean even if they don't know the law on how to properly do it, their feelings/intentions are fairly clear.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

They dont care, when I wrote a letter explaining to regions bank that there were nearly 200,000 some odd thousand or more permit holders in the state and to think that if say 50,000 of those were regions customers as to how that would affect their business. They still didnt take down the signs, so I along with all the other permit holders I know that had accounts there went elsewhere with our business.

[Alpha13]

I like the Idea, many people don't understand the difference between a safe carrying gun person and a thug. It helps make a distinction in their understanding. Yes we know that it is illegal to carry without a permit, but how many in the general public really understand that? Besides, it still allows a person to feel "safe", but allow legal cun carrying folks to come in...

[Guest db99wj]

The pro gun and the anti gun are two ideals that are at the extreme ends of the spectrum. The ones in the middle, the majority, have no strong feelings, nor do they have much of an education on the in's and out's of the particular issue. The Restaurant association was feeding owners a load of crap the whole time this issue was up for debate. The owners look to this association to look out for their interest in general so that they can look out for their interest, ie running the business. Some do understand and have made that stance, I would bet many do not. I would be curious to the amount of propaganda that the restaurant association sent out that were more or less scare tactics. From what I remember, the president or director or whatever of the Restaurant association came off as a flaming anti gun super liberal type anyway.

I would like to think this anyway. I did send a letter to Huey's corporate and got a letter from Thomas Bogg's daughter that is running things, and she said she appreciated my letter, but they will be putting up the signs. From some of her extra curricular activities, she seems to be fairly liberal as well.

They are posted, might ask, what is it going to hurt?

Edited October 28, 2010 by db99wj

[Fallguy]

I'm all for asking a place to remove a sign and explain my posistion etc......and would rather see a sign removed instead of asking another sign exempting HCP holders be posted...

[southernasylum]

We need to print up a thousand and just give them to every toddler we see. When my daughter was younger she was always putting stickers on stuff!

Disclaimer: THIS IS JUST A JOKE. TGO rules strictly forbid discussing illegal action.

[mikegideon]

If you're going to add a different sign to the mix, No Open Carry would be the one. In a lot of cases, that's what causes the gun buster sign to go up in the first place. I know... not legal.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Sadly, adding a sticker like this could be confusing. A simple - No open carry- sign? Hmm. How would you design it so it can be understood by the "general public?" As the gun buster sign was chosen to prevent confusion...

[mikegideon]

Sadly, adding a sticker like this could be confusing. A simple - No open carry- sign? Hmm. How would you design it so it can be understood by the "general public?" As the gun buster sign was chosen to prevent confusion...

I'm talking about a sign with the same weight as "no shirt no shoes". The threat of jail isn't necessary.

[KahrMan]

I'm all for asking a place to remove a sign and explain my posistion etc......and would rather see a sign removed instead of asking another sign exempting HCP holders be posted...

Fallguy,

The law clearly say that hcp holders can not carry in a place that is posted with the gun buster sign. The law does not give the store owner a right to make exceptions I do not believe. So if a store put up the gun buster sign and under it put except for people with a HCP, it would still be illegal for us to carry there, correct?

[Guest HvyMtl]

Hmm. KahrMan has a very valid point. Does the TCA allow for the leeway to place such an addition to the law required gunbuster sign?

[Oh Shoot]

Hmm. KahrMan has a very valid point. Does the TCA allow for the leeway to place such an addition to the law required gunbuster sign?

No.

Handguns are either banned or not.

Meaning, people with HCPs are forbidden to carry.

The sign carries no weight with those without a HCP, who unlike you and I, can not be fined $500 for carrying past the sign.

- OS

[mikegideon]

I just don't understand why a business owner would even have to worry about the law if all he wants is acceptable behaviour from LAW ABIDING folks. Keep your gun hidden so you don't scare the sheeple, or I'll throw your ass out.

[Fallguy]

Fallguy,

The law clearly say that hcp holders can not carry in a place that is posted with the gun buster sign. The law does not give the store owner a right to make exceptions I do not believe. So if a store put up the gun buster sign and under it put except for people with a HCP, it would still be illegal for us to carry there, correct?

I think you're probably right, which goes back to my whole opposistion to the OPs idea in the first place.

Say....where did he go after his first and only post anyway?....

As far as a sign only preventing OC....the AG has said that a property owner can dictate the manner of carry on their property, however I'm not sure how legally binding a Non-OC sign would be. More that it just stated the owner's prefence...but as always he could tell you to leave and your would then have to.

[mikegideon]

I think you're probably right, which goes back to my whole opposistion to the OPs idea in the first place.

Say....where did he go after his first and only post anyway?....

As far as a sign only preventing OC....the AG has said that a property owner can dictate the manner of carry on their property, however I'm not sure how legally binding a Non-OC sign would be. More that it just stated the owner's prefence...but as always he could tell you to leave and your would then have to.

That's my point. You don't need the gun specific statute to control behavior on your property. Open carry is obvious, and easy to control. If that's the real beef, then the gun buster sign isn't necessary, even tho it always winds up being the "solution".

[Guest 270win]

We need to work next year with some legislators to remove the teeth from this sign statute. The best way to remove the teeth of the sign statute without a big fuss would be to cut the fine down considerably to a civil offense, like twenty five bucks for not leaving a property, ensuring someone does not have his permit suspended or revoked, and making someone's gun is not confiscated over a sign.

Some states have a sign statute to make people feel better, like Missouri and Minnesota, but you can't really get in trouble and worry about any sort of criminal offense, large fine, and technically gun seizure.