carrying with safety off?

[kesava]

Does anyone know of a reason why I should carry with the on all the time? I have a Beretta 45 with a slide safety you have to push up with the thumb to take off safe. I have practiced this maneuver a lot at the range to get smooth but when under stress during competition this becomes clumsy and time consuming. I think in a self defense situation that could get me killed. I have a long trigger pull in this DA/SA pistol.

DS/SA - with holster - no safety

SAO - Always a safety - Why? because I'm human and I make mistakes, miscalculations and some poor decisions. I don't do it often, and never have I made them with a firearm, however, I like to introduce other helpful leg/life/dignity saving practices into my regiment. From IWB draw with safety I can get 3 shots into a kill zone and a 3 inch group in about 4 seconds. without the safety, same. Doesn't slow me down.

Plus if for what ever reason, I lost control of my firearm to another individual out of my holster, they would have to work the safety on a foreign gun in order to use it against me. far fetched, but possible.

[Guest Pig957]

I carry a glock. The only saftey I have is to keep my finger off the trigger.

[maroonandwhite]

I tend to always put my safety on before holstering just in case anything gets in the trigger guard and snags the trigger. I know this shouldn't happen if I take care in putting the gun in the holster but it's just in my head I guess. I would go with whatever makes you feel more comfortable and in control of your weapon but i'm no expert. I also don't see any noticeable difference with it on or off as far as response goes but every gun has a different safety.

[LagerHead]

The thumb safety on a 1911 locks the sear, this prevents the sear from coming off the hammer notch and accidentally firing if the gun is jarred or dropped. The grip saftey on a 1911 only prevents the trigger from being pulled and doesn't lock or prevent the sear from being knocked off the hammer if the gun is jarred or dropped. A 1911 will fire when jarred or dropped if the thumb safety is off even if the grip safety and/or the trigger isn't depressed. This applies to 70 series 1911's.

The reason I know this is a fellow officer dropped his holstered 1911. The thumb safety was not engaged and it fired, hitting me in the leg. Again, the gun that fired was a holstered gun that did not have the grip safety or the trigger depresssed. I also have plenty of experience building 1911's and know the relationships of the parts inside the gun.

I know you are safe in how you handle your firearms but strange things do happen. I would hate for you or someone else to get hurt over something as minor as not applying a safety when it is as easy as the 1911's safety is to operate.

Dolomite

Just to be clear, theoretically this does not apply to Series 80 1911's, or others with a similar proprietary setup like the Kimber Series II, right?

[Chucktshoes]

Just to be clear, theoretically this does not apply to Series 80 1911's, or others with a similar proprietary setup like the Kimber Series II, right?

I wouldn't think so as they have a Firing Pin Block mechanism. Which (AFAIK) was introduced to correct this issue.

[JReedEsq]

The thumb safety on a 1911 locks the sear, this prevents the sear from coming off the hammer notch and accidentally firing if the gun is jarred or dropped. The grip saftey on a 1911 only prevents the trigger from being pulled and doesn't lock or prevent the sear from being knocked off the hammer if the gun is jarred or dropped. A 1911 will fire when jarred or dropped if the thumb safety is off even if the grip safety and/or the trigger isn't depressed. This applies to 70 series 1911's.

The reason I know this is a fellow officer dropped his holstered 1911. The thumb safety was not engaged and it fired, hitting me in the leg. Again, the gun that fired was a holstered gun that did not have the grip safety or the trigger depresssed. I also have plenty of experience building 1911's and know the relationships of the parts inside the gun.

I know you are safe in how you handle your firearms but strange things do happen. I would hate for you or someone else to get hurt over something as minor as not applying a safety when it is as easy as the 1911's safety is to operate.

Dolomite

This (a dropped 1911 pistol) is the reason that was given to my family for the death of my Grandfather. He was an active duty Army Officer who was stationed in Germany during the rebuilding post WWII. He was shot near a firing range in Germany in 1956, either before or after some type of training exercise. My Mother was only three years old at the time. My great-Uncle was a Marine at the time and tried to get more information on what happend but he either didn't find anything out or didn't share anything with the rest of the family. This is part of the reason that I grew up with no guns in my house. It is also why I'll probably never own a 1911, and why I'll never leave a shotgun with a round in the chamber.

***Edit: Sorry to go so off topic. None of my handguns have a safety. I treat every gun as if it's loaded, and I'm always concerned about guns being "drop-safe".

Edited October 25, 2010 by JReedEsq

[LagerHead]

I wouldn't think so as they have a Firing Pin Block mechanism. Which (AFAIK) was introduced to correct this issue.

My understanding as well. I don't see how a Series 80 or other similar mechanism could allow the firing pin to drop without the trigger pulled.

[Dolomite_supafly]

My understanding as well. I don't see how a Series 80 or other similar mechanism could allow the firing pin to drop without the trigger pulled.

A series 80 will not allow the firing pin to move unless a few steps are done first.

The series 80 it requires the trigger to be pulled in order for the firing pin to be freed up and able to move from its position of rest. And for the trigger to be pulled the grip safety must be depressed. So you would have to do at least these two things before the firing pin would be free to move. Theoretically the sear could still be bumped off the hammer in an 80 series the same way a 70 series can. The difference is the 70 series has nothing to keep the firing pin from igniting the primer from the blow of the hammer after it has slipped off the sear.

I have both, a 80 and a 70 series. The 70 series is easier to get a decent trigger. The firing pin safety on the series 80 has an additional spring that you must overcome in order to fire the gun. This causes the trigger to be relatively heavier as well as requiring a bit more movement of the trigger to release the sear. I am still able to get a decent trigger on series 80's but just not as nice as what can be done to series 70's.

A properly fitted thumb safety prevents the sear from being knocked off the hammer in either series no matter how hard the gun is jarred. But theoretically the firing pin could still move on a 70 series causing the gun to fire where the 80 series would prevent it.

I carry my 70 series 1911 "cocked and locked" and feel plenty safe. That is ready to fire with the thumb safety engaged. My thumb safety is fitted so tightly that the leg on the safety is jammed into place against the sear and the sear will not move at all no matter how hard I pull the trigger. It still doesn't prevent the theoretical inertia firing when dropped but the sear prevents the hammer from falling.

All these statements are contingent on properly fitted parts. A 1911, although simple in design, does require precise fitting of parts in order to function properly.

Dolomite

Edited October 25, 2010 by Dolomite_supafly

[robbiev]

I carry either a Smith and Wesson revolver or a Ruger LCP. For the life of me, I can't locate the safety on either.

Clearly, your two guns are defective.

[greenego]

I carry either a Smith and Wesson revolver or a Ruger LCP. For the life of me, I can't locate the safety on either.

I have the same problem with my Ruger SP101 and Kahr PM9.