Anyone practice shooting in the dark?

[Will Carry]

When I'm working second shift I'll go to the indoor shooting range during the week when it's not crowded. Sometimes there are LEOs in there qualifying. One of the things they have to do is shoot in the dark at targets 21 feet away. The instructor asked me if I minded and I said go ahead. So with the lights out it is pitch black in there. The only way to see the target is with your own muzzle flash. The muzzle flash will give you a snap shot of what your sights looked like, then you have to try and correct the sights for the next shot. I don't know how the other guys did but at 21 feet I fired 6 times and did not hit the silhouette that I could tell.

Then they turned on a blue strobe light and shot a few rounds. Then they were allowed to use their flash lights to shoot a few more. I was shooting with them, shot for shot.

The instructor complimented me on my shooting. My pattern was tighter than any of those guys.

I ain't that good. At 21 feet all my rounds would have fit inside a paper plate accept for the six I fired in the dark.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Will Carry

[Kelemvor]

I'd like to try that, but I don't see it happening until I get my own land to shoot on. It seems like a very relevant thing to practice.

[gsbell]

There are occasional night time IDPA matches, it can be a humbling experience.

[TNWNGR]

I'd like to try that, but I don't see it happening until I get my own land to shoot on. It seems like a very relevant thing to practice.

You'll find that enough ambiant light is available to still see your gun sights most of the time. A good tactical flashlight that you know how to use is a must have, even more so than night sights.

A training device that resembles safety glasses is available to mimic darkness for night fire training during daylight hours. Sorry but I can't fine it at this time but will check to see if they're still being sold.

[Sheepdog]

When I was a member at Carter's (an indoor range in Chattanooga), I'd frequently be the only one there in the afternoons. I'd turn out the lights and shoot using either the light that seeped in under the door, or with a flashlight.

One thing that I found is that I really like my night sights, with green front and orange rear. It helps me differentiate my front sight a lot faster.

[Punisher84]

I have done a fair bit of low-light training. I enjoy it quite a bit.

[peejman]

...The only way to see the target is with your own muzzle flash. The muzzle flash will give you a snap shot of what your sights looked like, then you have to try and correct the sights for the next shot. ....

I can see the value in practicing in the dark, but the above seems a little disturbing. You have to blindly fire a shot to see? What ever happened to knowing your target and what's beyond? I understand that it's just an exercise, but it seems to be practicing a "no no". Would practicing point shooting not accomplish the same thing?

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Low light training should include both target identification (using an artificial light source) and shooting. Using muzzle blast to identify a target is not an acceptable practice.

I'm hoping I'm misunderstanding this training.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

When I was a member at Carter's (an indoor range in Chattanooga), I'd frequently be the only one there in the afternoons. I'd turn out the lights and shoot using either the light that seeped in under the door, or with a flashlight.

One thing that I found is that I really like my night sights, with green front and orange rear. It helps me differentiate my front sight a lot faster.

I've had the same experience in my training. Now, all of my sights have a contrasting rear.

[Punisher84]

Low light training should include both target identification (using an artificial light source) and shooting. Using muzzle blast to identify a target is not an acceptable practice.

I'm hoping I'm misunderstanding this training.

I think, take that FWIW lol, that the concept is to identify first, but then use the muzzle blast for follow up shots in case of light failure, etc.

It's pretty much a police and military tactic I'd guess. Utilized during an already active firefight where there is clear threat identification.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

I think, take that FWIW lol, that the concept is to identify first, but then use the muzzle blast for follow up shots in case of light failure, etc.

It's pretty much a police and military tactic I'd guess. Utilized during an already active firefight where there is clear threat identification.

I've never heard of any m&p training that encouraged this sort of tactic. If you can't see your threat, then you shouldn't be firing wildly into the darkness, hoping to align your sights for future shots. In the real world, your target won't stand still that long.

If your light fails, then you can no longer identify your threat. Time to go for your backup...,..

[Punisher84]

I've never heard of any m&p training that encouraged this sort of tactic. If you can't see your threat, then you shouldn't be firing wildly into the darkness, hoping to align your sights for future shots. In the real world, your target won't stand still that long.

If your light fails, then you can no longer identify your threat. Time to go for your backup...,..

I would tend to agree. Maybe the tactic isn't being described properly would be my guess as well. I've never done anything low-light training that didn't involve some light source.

[JAB]

When I traded my P11 for a used P95PR a couple of weeks ago, I wanted to test out the Winchester PDX1 9mm 124 grain +P ammo that some of the local Walmart locations now sell. Mostly, I wanted to check for functionality (although I have another, older P95 that will pretty much eat anything and I was confident the new one would do the same.) I ended up trying it at my mom's (she lives in a rural area and we have some logs piled up for a backstop in a 'shooting area'.)

Well, it was nearly dark by the time we stopped by her house but since I was mainly interested in functionality, I thought I'd go ahead, anyway. Besides, I thought, I like to shoot in low-light sometimes (being that would most likely be the conditions in which I'd have to use an SD firearm, anyway) and it would give me a chance to see the muzzle flash.

The first target didn't go so well. Standing about ten yards away, there was enough light that I could see the white of the paper and the black circle of the target but that's about it. As far as the sights, I could make out the basic shape of the front and rear sights and just tried to align them as well as I could. As you might expect from 'premium' SD ammo, the muzzle flash was not all that bright. It was a dull orange and not that much of a fireball - to my recollection, it didn't illuminate much of anything but at least it didn't ruin my night vision. I nearly always carry a mini-mag light that I have put the 3 led and tail switch conversion on and I had it with me that evening but didn't use it for shooting (although I have used it for low-light target practice, before.) This was pretty much the first time I had fired this particular P95 (although I have had my other one for years) other than trying it out at the LGS range before buying it.

This is the first target. I suspect the three-shot group in the center were the first three shots I fired. It was so dark that I couldn't see the holes in the target. thought I was missing the target so after those first three I started 'adjusting' and ended up all over the place and even missed a few shots, entirely. It wasn't until I went to retrieve the target that I realized I had gotten some pretty good hits.

That was my last shoot and see target so I put up one I had printed off of another gun forum and tried, again - same distance, etc. This time, I trusted my 'instincts' that I was getting hits and didn't try adjusting my aim as much. Got more hits that way (the red circle indicates where two rounds went through almost the same hole.

As for how dark it was by that point, here is a pic I took with my cellphone - using the mini-mag as a light source - of the exit holes in the board I had the target pinned to:

[Guest TnRebel]

The range where I took my HCP class ... has a low light identifier and shoot lane and it goes from full dark to bedroom dark with some the target having metallic badges on them . that I like to shoot a couple of times a month .

Edited October 20, 2010 by TnRebel

[Will Carry]

I tell ya guys. The next time I go to the range I will ask about the shooting in the dark drill they do. It's not the first time I've seen this but I have never felt it right to interrupt the class asking questions. It was a lot of fun and it helped me to realize that I can't hit nothin' in the dark. I also know know that muzzle flash will light up a room and give you a glimpse of what is going on. I do understand the safety aspects of shooting in the dark, but if you do know what is behind the target and some BG is shooting at you and you have no night sights or flash light....If this ever happens I'll no I'm screwed.

[mav]

During one of my firearms lessons, my instructor had me working with a flashlight in a dark range. It was pretty tough. It got even harder when he would stand somewhere behind me and start yelling out commands. The "threat" then immediate "body armor" command I found to be incredibly difficult with a flashlight.

[Guest CK1]

The range at Asherbranner's in Gallatin is quiet a lot during the week in the daytime, and I've asked the guys there if it'd be ok to turn the lights out and they're real cool about it (as long as you get them back on if someone else shoes up to use the range of course), so I try to get some low-light practice in now and then if I can.

I usually will run a few mags using just my iPhone as ambient light then a few using my carry light (a very un-fancy little $10 LED Nebo that's not super-bright, but real small and has barbs that could put a hurt on an attacker if needed in a pinch), all at 21ft. None of my groups will win any bullseye trophys but i can keep my shots within a 10" circle COM, for me it's almost purely index, I use a thumbs-forward grip and point my thumbs where I want the shots to go and use as much of the sights as I can (I practice from-the-draw using the iPhone shot-timer set to a random start and a 4 second par time which is just over twice my normal-light draw-time average to keep myself honest).

As Greg said, it can be humbling (though I bet a match would be more so), great thing to practice if you can.

FWIW, I use plain-black irons, not night-sights, I don't see the need for them personally and just consider them a gadget defensively-speaking (though I would not doubt that the use of them would be of help shooting a match and looking to better my score), I'll take good index and practice over tritium any day, but to each his own.

This is a great topic btw, cheers for starting it.

Edited October 21, 2010 by CK1
iPhone typos

[Punisher84]

FWIW, I use plain-black irons, not night-sights, I don't see the need for them personally and just consider them a gadget defensively-speaking (though I would not doubt that the use of them would be of help shooting a match and looking to better my score), I'll take good index and practice over tritium any day, but to each his own.

This is a great topic btw, cheers for starting it.

I used to think like that when I was selling them, then I bought my Kimber and slapped some on...I was very impressed. The thing for me is the "pop" they give during sight alignment. My eye is immediately drawn to that front sight. I'm not saying they are a necessity, but I know that I got much faster shots on target during drills with them than I did without them.

[ftncityfatboy]

this is a good thread. most of us probably practice shooting in the regular light of day, however, I would think most "incidents" would/will occur at night. So why not practice shooting in the dark or with extremely shaded glasses? This one has got me thinking......