Food and water questions

[bigwakes]

The wife and I have been talking about getting a 1 month food and water supply. What is the best way to store water? I'm thinking some 5 gallon water cooler jugs in the attic should do it. How many would we need for two adults and two kids? If we do bulk rice and beans, what is a good protien that will keep for a long time and not have the words freeze dried in the name?

[Guest uofmeet]

As far as the water is concerned, just remember to rotate it out every so often......

[BrasilNuts]

I'm not sure how much you would need for a month, but I don't know if I would store it in the attic. Also, remember you're going to need water to cook rice and beans.

Protien.

Vac packed tuna 6.4 oz package 14g protien ex date 03-06-12

Vac pack chicken 7 oz 14g protien ex date 05-10-12

DAK canned ham 16 oz 9g protien ex date 02-19-15

Edit: Sams is a great place to stock up on rice and beans in 10-15 lb bags. We just get a little extra every time we're there.

Edited October 18, 2010 by BrasilNuts

[Westwindmike]

A good cheap way to start storing water is to use the empty 2 liter soft drink bottles. Just wash them out and fill. They store well in the back of closets.

Rice and beans store well in them too.

[kckndrgn]

Keeping in mind water is HEAVY!

Minimum to have on hand should be 1 gal per person per day. This does not account for washing and sanitary needs and may not be enough if cooking lots of beans & rice. Keep not only storage but also use in mind. Find something that can be put on a counter or similar and have a spigot attached to it. Walmart has some 5gal "cubes" that work great.

As far as protein goes, rice & beans makes a complete protein.

Incomplete vs Complete Proteins

If you are looking at 30 days, then you would probably do fine with a few cans of tuna or chicken or salmon along with some rice & beans. What do you eat now? If you are expecting something to last 30 days or longer and assuming no power, are you going to let all your meat in your freezer go bad? Learn how to make some jerky from the meat in your freezer. At the start of your emergency, make the jerky, you wont loose that as a protein source.

And why don't you want "freeze dried" food? Have you tried some recently? I keep several #10 cans of Mountain House freeze dried entree's on hand. Some are better than others, but my very picky kids have eaten everyone that we have tried. Note, I did not wait until a disaster to try these, we just picked one night a month and said that we would prepare something form long term storage.

[bigwakes]

I have not heard good things about the flavor of freeze dried stuff. I'm also doing the math and the stuff I have seen breaks out to $5 per meal per person. $60 per day for 3 meals seams steep to me. Took a look at Mountain House and ordered 4 packets to try it. Seems like the prices are a little better than I have seen. 30 year shelf life does make more sense than 2-5 year shelf life. I'll let you know what we think.

Good tip on jerky. I'll look into that.

[Guest Tiny G]

A good cheap way to start storing water is to use the empty 2 liter soft drink bottles. Just wash them out and fill. They store well in the back of closets.

Rice and beans store well in them too.

+1 on 2 liter bottles. Change the water every 6 months. Store in a cool place. (under the bed is good)

[kckndrgn]

I have not heard good things about the flavor of freeze dried stuff. I'm also doing the math and the stuff I have seen breaks out to $5 per meal per person. $60 per day for 3 meals seams steep to me. Took a look at Mountain House and ordered 4 packets to try it. Seems like the prices are a little better than I have seen. 30 year shelf life does make more sense than 2-5 year shelf life. I'll let you know what we think.

Good tip on jerky. I'll look into that.

If you were closer I'd give you some of the FD veggies I have. I can eat the FD Sweet Corn right out of the can as candy. Once hydrated the corn & peas are just as good, or better than canned. Now the FD meals, while not the best thing in the world they are OK. Check out Walmart, they have MH FD foods in the camping section. Heck, my kids loved the FD ice cream, I was actually shocked at that.

Soda bottles work great, or any juice bottle. Just don't use milk jugs or the like for long term storage, they will leak eventually, sometimes slow enough that nothing around them is wet even though the jug is empty.

[gregintenn]

I keep a few cases of bottled drinking water. When I buy more, I just put it on the bottom of the stack.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I have not heard good things about the flavor of freeze dried stuff.

Of course, when you are hungry enough, flavor means nothing. When it's a survival situation, plan for the worst and hope for the best. If you stock up on a bunch of heavy food and water, you are pretty much assuming that whatever emergency has happened will allow you to stay in one place. I have some purification tablets and plan on investing in a good water filter. I also have a metal cup, a good knife, fire starter, a map, compass, and lightweight .22 rifle so I can easily move around, collect and boil water, shoot small game, etc. I am also learning about wild edible plants in the east Tennessee area. I hope I never have to use them, but better to be safe than sorry.

If you are only concerned about short term survival in case of a storm or natural disaster, my decade in hurricane country taught me that keeping plenty of dry foods like rice, beans, and powdered potatoes is good. I also kept a couple of cases of MREs on hand. Get some collapsible plastic water jugs for a last-minute supply of water if you have time to do it. You can throw it all in the back of your car or truck and hit the road if you need to evacuate (and keeping a couple of jugs of fuel on hand is a good idea too). When I worked as a cop in Florida, I volunteered to work in the Pensacola area after Hurricane Ivan. There were areas that had been completely devastated and the only things people had left were what they had taken with them. I recall one fellow who was sitting on the slab of what used to be his house with a little camp stove, a lantern, and a tent. He had some food, not a lot, but had packed enough to get him through until help arrived. He was fairly upbeat because he was treating it like a camping trip and had prepared. The guy offered me something to eat and a cup of coffee. I laughed and told him that it was supposed to be me offering food. I gave him a case of MREs and he was good to go for another week.

[East_TN_Patriot]

After reading this I did a quick Google search on how to store food like rice and beans and found this site that has some pretty good ideas. I suspect you may be able to get them cheaper elsewhere if you look around, but this seems to be a good shopping list to work with.

Kitchen Packaging Supplies @ FrontierSurvival.net Food Storage mylar bags and more.

http://www.squidoo.com/MylarBags

http://survivalacres.com/information/shelflife.html

Edited October 18, 2010 by East_TN_Patriot

[Shorty]

I went by Sportsman's Warehouse when I was out in Chattanooga this past weekend and they have some 15 gallon storage tanks for about $35. They were about 3 ft tall and 12-16in in diameter. Thought about getting one since it would fit well in a corner somewhere. Would just need a little hand pump to get the water out.

[bigwakes]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I wish I had tried Walmart for Mountain House, but it already shipped and should be here in a few days. Any suggestions on a solid water purifier? I know that will greatly increase the water supply if things are really bad. Is there one brand or method of purification that is better than another.

[JAB]

I recall one fellow who was sitting on the slab of what used to be his house with a little camp stove, a lantern, and a tent. He had some food, not a lot, but had packed enough to get him through until help arrived...The guy offered me something to eat and a cup of coffee.

Now THAT is what I call Southern Hospitality!

As far as using 2 liter bottles as an option to store at least part of your water supply, that sounds like it would have several points in its favor:

1. You are 'recycling' the bottle - not paying for other containment options and using the bottle for another purpose

2. You will probably empty enough each month or so to be able to change out part of the on-hand supply pretty frequently and

3. (My personal favorite) When you pull the older bottles from the supply, they become instant 'reactive targets', providing you have somewhere you could shoot them.

[gkamer]

Why not just stock up on MRE's. They are some that are tastey. some not so good, but they keep forever and are easy to store.

[bigwakes]

Why not just stock up on MRE's. They are some that are tastey. some not so good, but they keep forever and are easy to store.

According to Wikipedia the shelf life is 3 years. I'm certain you can eat them after that, 3 years is the reccomended shelf life.

We have come up with a plan. Let me know what you think. We will have 1 case of MREs that can be eaten cold or heated without fire. We'll Have the majority of food in the Mountain House FD food and put away rice and beans as well. Our reasoning is the MREs can be eaten without fire if we had to. The freeze dried can be used with a minimal amount of water on hand and the rice and beans will be the one that uses the most resources to prepare (pot, water, and a fire). I think having a three pronged aproach will make us ready for more situations. Still working on water storage and have decided to use 2 liter bottles and 5 gallon water jugs if we can find them.

On a side note, we tried our first freeze dried Mountain House last night and were satisfied we could live on it if we had to.

[perstare]

The wife and I have been talking about getting a 1 month food and water supply. What is the best way to store water? I'm thinking some 5 gallon water cooler jugs in the attic should do it. How many would we need for two adults and two kids? If we do bulk rice and beans, what is a good protien that will keep for a long time and not have the words freeze dried in the name?

Water: One idea is to take a look at the "Water Bob" sold by Cheaper Than Dirt. It is a bathtub-sized "baggie" in which you can store water. page 88 in their catalog #311.

Food: Go to beprepared.com for some really good ideas.

I hope this helps. PM me if you wish.

[kckndrgn]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I wish I had tried Walmart for Mountain House, but it already shipped and should be here in a few days. Any suggestions on a solid water purifier? I know that will greatly increase the water supply if things are really bad. Is there one brand or method of purification that is better than another.

What what filter to get is a hard question to answer. What is the intended purpose? Do you need portable or base camp style? What type of water do you expect to filter (heavily soiled, running stream that is clear, stagnant pond water)?

The water bob is a neat idea, but it has it's limits. You're typically only going to fill it up just before you expect a problem. If you are not at home when disaster strikes who's gonna fill it up? I'm not saying it's entierly bad, I intend on getting one for the house.

While I have not pulled the trigger (so to speak) on my water filters I'm leaning towards:

house/base camp - Berkey filter (Berkey Light Water Filter)

for BOB something like a Katadyn Hiker. Cleanable ceramic filter, can use a pre-filter on the water to get the "big" chunks out (coffee filter works great).

In my GHB I have an Aquamira Frontier (Aquamira Frontier Filter — Aquamira Water Treatment Products)

Every situation is different, you just need to evaluate what you need your filter to do and get one that's reasonably priced.

[Shorty]

have you used the Aquamira Frontier yet? I'm curious to the effectiveness of it. I've looked at those and the Frontier Pro as options for my pack, but I'd like to find some actual feedback to their capabilities.

[perstare]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I wish I had tried Walmart for Mountain House, but it already shipped and should be here in a few days. Any suggestions on a solid water purifier? I know that will greatly increase the water supply if things are really bad. Is there one brand or method of purification that is better than another.

A very expensive device is the Steri Pen, which purifies water using ultraviolet light.It is battery powered, but I noticed that an emergency version is available -- you turn a crank to generate the necessary electricity to run it. Another suggestion is to have a lot of coffee filters available (for the first-filtering of lake water, for example). My wife and I live by a lake.

PM me if you wish.

[bigwakes]

All good info. The Water Bob is a good idea. With the recent flood scare in Franklin the first thing we did was fill two bathtubs with water. I like the steri Pen, just curious on it's effectiveness. I know it will kill any living bacteria, but can't filter out possible chemicals in the water. I'll take a look at the others tonight. We would be looking at the pond behind our house as a possible emergency water supply if that helps with reccomendations. We also have two small kids, so leaving would be a last resort.

[G27]

I encourage everyone prepping to do periodic calorie inventories. When you are stocking food, you can EASILY overestimate what you have stored, especially if you have kids. Do the math using online calculators to figure out a good ballpark for each family member's caloric needs (also factor in the fact you may well be doing more physical work than you normally do if you are relying on your food stores, depending on the SHTF event).

For example, my family currently needs about 8,500 kcal/day, which means I need about 250,000 kcals/month of food stored. My most recent calorie inventory showed that I had, in my head, estimated that I had about 30% more days of food stored than I actually do. We're good for several months here, and of course if things were truly bad we could probably live off half what we need daily right now to survive and still remain mobile, but hope for the best, prepare for the worst...

[East_TN_Patriot]

According to Wikipedia the shelf life is 3 years. I'm certain you can eat them after that, 3 years is the reccomended shelf life.

My understanding is that actual military MREs have a MINIMUM shelf life of 3 years, but if stored properly they are good for as much as 10 years or more. Of course, most of the MREs that you get out there are commercially produced aftermarket meals so you probably have to follow their recommendations more closely. If memory serves me, it's actually illegal to sell the actual US Gov't MREs and it is actually marked as such on the packaging, and I read somewhere that the companies who make the meals for the military are restricted from producing civilian versions of the military MREs. It sucks for us, but I guess it makes sense so that Al Qaeda isn't munching away on our high-quality combat rations ordered off of Amazon.

[TNWNGR]

Water= 1 gallon per person per day.

Freeze dried food’s cost a lot of money and are pretty bland. Instead buy dried beans, rice and oatmeal. Dry your own vegetables and fruit yourself in your kitchen oven, it’s easy. Make up batches of ready cooked, canned meats, beef, chicken, fish, venison etc. While you’re at it make up several large batches of jerky and either put it in vacuum packed bag’s of in sealed canning jars.

Lots of dried spices, jellies, jam’s, honey, tea, coffee and hard candy, as well as powdered and canned milks are a must as well. Shop around and purchase smoked sausage’s and ham’s, or do your own, pick up some dehydrated potatoes’, grit’s flour, cake mixes and lot’s of cornmeal. Freeze some of this stuff first, and then seal it up in canning jars or 5 gallon sealed tubs.

Freshly collected egg’s can be preserved by wiping the egg’s clean with a dry towel and then coating them with petroleum jelly and storing in a cool dry place. They’ll last a very long time, just wipe the shells off before using them. Also, don’t forget frozen food’s because if your set up for a generator you can run it periodically during the day and keep everything frozen for a long time.

[bigwakes]

My understanding is that actual military MREs have a MINIMUM shelf life of 3 years, but if stored properly they are good for as much as 10 years or more. Of course, most of the MREs that you get out there are commercially produced aftermarket meals so you probably have to follow their recommendations more closely. If memory serves me, it's actually illegal to sell the actual US Gov't MREs and it is actually marked as such on the packaging, and I read somewhere that the companies who make the meals for the military are restricted from producing civilian versions of the military MREs. It sucks for us, but I guess it makes sense so that Al Qaeda isn't munching away on our high-quality combat rations ordered off of Amazon.

I heard on the news just this week that the government is doing an investigation to see if some of the stuff on Ebay is from the Katrina relief. They say much of the cheapest MREs on Ebay is shipping from the gulf states. I'll have to check on the shelf life of MREs. I'll try to find another source on that one. Thanks for your input.