Hunters vs. Non Hunters

[xRUSTYx]

I was having this discussion with my fiance a few nights ago ... wanted to hear the thoughts of others.

I grew up in Los Angeles, where firearms in general are a big no, no for the most part. Never met a single hunter in Cali nor did I know more than 1, maybe 2 people with a firearm.

Moved here about a year and a half ago, got my HCP about 2-3 weeks ago, and now EDC.

One question I have been going over and over in my head is this: I have ZERO issues defending those I love. If a perpetrator or animal (of any type - dogs, predatory animals, etc...) were to threaten the safety of me or my family, I have zero issue's defending myself/them.

What I have a problem comprehending, is killing an animal outside of a defensive situation. I am an animal lover (we have 6 "furbabies"). I eat EVERY type of meat, fish, etc.... Don't belong to PETA, and don't think its wrong to hunt. I just don't have the "heart" to hunt.

Perhaps its my upbringing, or just my love for animals. When I see a buck/doe dead on the side of the road, I feel bad. I think to myself ... There is no way (unless it was a survival/defensive move) I could kill one!

Anyone else in my shoes? Just can't kill an animal?

[Rightwinger]

I love animals as well. I think the relationship developed between a domesticated animal and their human partners (not owners ya notice) is a special one.

That being said, I think as an avid sportsmen that hunting not only provides me and thousands of others a link to our past, a challenge that modern life can't fullfill and healthy, moderate cost food for the table. I also know that the good hunter helps the game animals by thinning them each fall prior to the hardship times of winter and makes those species better by culling those that would probably have been susceptible to being killed by feral dogs, coyotes and traffic accidents. My father can recall here in Tennessee growing up that just finding a deer print was news! The herd is so well established now that TWRA has increased the limits the last few years to unprecedented levels. Nothing wrong with not wanting to participate but seek out a hunter/sportsman and talk to him about all the aspects that go into it and are associated with it.

Your outdoors, you watch the woods come to life each day. I talk to my creator with all the grandeur of him on display. I let the young ones walk to propagate more, I take the old ones so that they might not suffer the privations of winter and the provide me sustenance for which I am thankful. It's an experience that trophy hunters will never enjoy and I loathe anyone that would take a nice buck only to get the antlers and a picture.

Good discussion.

Come by and see us at the shop again brother.

[Punisher84]

My wife is a vegetarian, not a strict one, but she usually will only eat chicken if she eats meat. I grew up hunting, fishing, shooting, all the usual outdoors stuff. She doesn't mind and we are both HUGE animal lovers, but there is a difference between a pet and a meal. I am not a trophy hunter. I do not see the point of killing something simply to mount it. I was raised and taught that you ate what you killed if you were hunting. That is how I have always been and that is what I will teach my children.

I'm not against anyone who doesn't hunt or doesn't eat meat as long as they don't try to tell me I can't. If it weren't for hunters we would have some serious overpopulation problems. So I always ask people this...what's worse, a deer in the stomach of a family or a deer through the windshield of a family's vehicle? Just something to ponder.

[peejman]

Pretty much what they said....

I like animals (they're tasty! ) and so does my wife. I think it's just a matter of distinguishing between pets and food, some people have trouble separating the two. I'd bet most of those people didn't grow up on or around a farm. I also have some difficulty with trophy hunting. Watch a couple episodes of "Spirit of the Wild", it might give you a bit of perspective.

[ShaunM]

I love animals as well. I think the relationship developed between a domesticated animal and their human partners (not owners ya notice) is a special one.

That being said, I think as an avid sportsmen that hunting not only provides me and thousands of others a link to our past, a challenge that modern life can't fullfill and healthy, moderate cost food for the table. I also know that the good hunter helps the game animals by thinning them each fall prior to the hardship times of winter and makes those species better by culling those that would probably have been susceptible to being killed by feral dogs, coyotes and traffic accidents. My father can recall here in Tennessee growing up that just finding a deer print was news! The herd is so well established now that TWRA has increased the limits the last few years to unprecedented levels. Nothing wrong with not wanting to participate but seek out a hunter/sportsman and talk to him about all the aspects that go into it and are associated with it.

Your outdoors, you watch the woods come to life each day. I talk to my creator with all the grandeur of him on display. I let the young ones walk to propagate more, I take the old ones so that they might not suffer the privations of winter and the provide me sustenance for which I am thankful. It's an experience that trophy hunters will never enjoy and I loathe anyone that would take a nice buck only to get the antlers and a picture.

Good discussion.

Come by and see us at the shop again brother.

+1 well said. Also I usually donate a deer or 2 to the hunters for the hungry and I donate money every year to the cause as do a lot of hunters. A good honest hunter makes for a good balance and a true hunter well you find no one else that loves nature more. I grew up in the country and was taught to respect the land and what is on it. I don't like it when hunters just hunt for antlers and not meat. I hunt for both. I have seen to many deer over the years lying on the side of the road with the antlers cut off, if you see that then he or she was not a true hunter. Rightwinger you said it correctly when sitting in the woods before daylight and when the sun starts to come up it's like the world comes to life and that in itself is worth every minute.

[whiskey]

I love animals too. I hate to see any animal run over on the road. However, I have worked on farms where domestic animals are killed for food and I grew up hunting. I guess that once I was forced to make the connection between what I was eating and where it came from, I developed a realistic view of the food chain. Personally, I feel hunting is much less "barbaric", for lack of a better term, than domestic slaughter. Sure a deer may be cuter than a cow, but that should matter very little in the value of living beings.

What I have a problem comprehending, is killing an animal outside of a defensive situation. I am an animal lover (we have 6 "furbabies"). I eat EVERY type of meat, fish, etc.... Don't belong to PETA, and don't think its wrong to hunt. I just don't have the "heart" to hunt.

Don't take this personal, but when I hear people make statements similar to this (I eat meat, but I could never kill an animal). I feel that they are blocking out the reality of where the meat they eat comes from. That's fine. I think more people would be vegans if they had to kill their own meat or even if they had to view a slaughter. I understand why it's hard to imagine taking an animals life, but many hunters feel that same feeling early on. It's not manly to admit that you're upset at seeing a death you dealt, but it is a common feeling for first time hunters. For me, I remember being 12 years old and taking my first deer. I was so excited at first, then I was sad when I walked up to the deer and saw it laying there. Then the process of cleaning the deer brought the reality of the cycle of life. The deer wasn't a deer anymore, it was just meat.

When my daughter was preparing to go deer hunting I explained the process to her. I made sure that she was ok with taking the deer's life. Her first deer fell within a couple yards of where she shot it and there was only an exited feeling from her. However, her second deer ran about 100 yards. As we began the tracking I could see she was shaken, so I asked what was wrong. She said, "Dad, I hope she isn't suffering somewhere". So, hunters are not without feelings for their game. They are, more often than not, very concerned with making clean kills, recovering their game, and eating what they kill.

What I can't explain is the huge rush that comes with taking your first squirrel, rabbit, dove or deer. It is a good feeling. I would encourage you to take a hunter's safety course. Perhaps education into the sport would spark an interest for you. I would be more than happy to take you hunting and teach you the sport of hunting, not just the killing of animals.

[mikegideon]

My wife is a vegetarian, not a strict one, but she usually will only eat chicken if she eats meat. I grew up hunting, fishing, shooting, all the usual outdoors stuff. She doesn't mind and we are both HUGE animal lovers, but there is a difference between a pet and a meal. I am not a trophy hunter. I do not see the point of killing something simply to mount it. I was raised and taught that you ate what you killed if you were hunting. That is how I have always been and that is what I will teach my children.

I'm not against anyone who doesn't hunt or doesn't eat meat as long as they don't try to tell me I can't. If it weren't for hunters we would have some serious overpopulation problems. So I always ask people this...what's worse, a deer in the stomach of a family or a deer through the windshield of a family's vehicle? Just something to ponder.

"Vegetarian: Old Indian word for bad hunter"

[MacGyver]

Pick up a copy of Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilema. It will change your views about your responsibility inside the food chain.

In all reality, hunting done ethically, and by follow on humanely is much less brutal than the typical beef cow's last year on a CAFO or the entire 56 days of it's life a broiler chicken spends in a cage. It may also be a lot less brutal than nature itself. Death in nature is usually cruel, and slow. An animal either gets sick and suffers, or it gets consumed by something higher up the food chain while it may still be alive. At least with a hunter that deer spends its days as a deer should right until it becomes meat for the table.

I grew up around guns, but not hunting. No one in my immediate family was against it, however my dad was a sniper in Vietnam, and his view was that he had "hunted enough", and was fortunate enough to be able to buy meat at the store on a regular basis.

As I really think about it though, I think Whiskey's statement is right. And as such, I've taken up some hunting. If you eat meat, fine. I do, and enjoy it. But, if you eat meat, you need to be fully aware of where it comes from, and what's involved in getting that ground beef into your cheeseburger at $2.69/lb. Once you think that all the way through, you'll realize that you have blood on your hands regardless of whether you hunt or not. And, the blood you get on your hand from being an active participant in the food chain is likely a lot less ethically tainted than the blood you get on your hands by simply picking up meat at Kroger.

For me, it's not a matter of hunting or not hunting, loving animals or not loving animals. I love animals, and as such I eat a little bit less meat today than I did before I went through this thought process. I can choose to participate in where my meat comes from - whether I hunt it, raise it, or buy it from a source where I know that their cows, chickens and pigs got to spend their days as the good Lord intended them to spend them. There's a caveat, though. It's more expensive - and thus you realize the true cost of your consumption. But, as they say, good things aren't cheap. Maybe our meat wasn't meant to be industrialized in the first place.

[mikegideon]

I haven't hunted in years because I've been a city dweller. I'm too lazy, and too short on time to overcome the hassle. When I lived in the woods, I hunted constantly. If the opportunity presents itself, I'll go. I'm certainly well equipped in the firearms department.

[kb4ns]

If it weren't for hunters we would have some serious overpopulation problems. So I always ask people this...what's worse, a deer in the stomach of a family or a deer through the windshield of a family's vehicle? Just something to ponder.

Not to mention the unavoidable spread of disease / illness when the deer populations are too high and the lack of resources the deer themselves face when their numbers are above the carrying capacity of the land.

[xRUSTYx]

you guys have brought up some great points! thanks!

overpopulation being one of them .... trophy hunting vs hunting for food (trophy being an afterthought), etc....

I guess I just need to wrap my mind around the idea. i may just need to find a buddy that hunts and go out with him one day ....

[memphismason]

Everything that I could possibly say on this topic has already been said.

I am proud of our "Hunting forum members". A topic like this could have brought out some hostility, but everyone here from the OP and down, has done an excellent job of discussing this in the proper manner.

[DaveS]

Hunting 101 and Whiskey said it all. I can't think of anything else to say that hasn't been said. I do however Support PETA by donating deer to "hunter's for the hungry" and to my own family! So there PETA and all the "lettuce lovers" out there!

[ShaunM]

Hunting 101 and Whiskey said it all. I can't think of anything else to say that hasn't been said. I do however Support PETA by donating deer to "hunter's for the hungry" and to my own family! So there PETA and all the "lettuce lovers" out there!

You ain't right ha ha

[Punisher84]

"Vegetarian: Old Indian word for bad hunter"

LMAO

[mav]

I don't hunt for two reasons. First, I don't own a rifle. That will be next year. Secondly, if I shot something I wouldn't know what to do with it. When I buy my rifle(s) next year, I plan on doing some hunting with my nephew and my brother-in-law. I doubt will do a lot of it since I hate the cold. However, I do think it is a good skill to learn and knowledge to have.

[ShaunM]

I don't hunt for two reasons. First, I don't own a rifle. That will be next year. Secondly, if I shot something I wouldn't know what to do with it. When I buy my rifle(s) next year, I plan on doing some hunting with my nephew and my brother-in-law. I doubt will do a lot of it since I hate the cold. However, I do think it is a good skill to learn and knowledge to have.

It is a great skill to learn. I'm sure your brother-in-law will show you how to skin and even gut one (the best part of cleaning a deer)

[Guest jackdm3]

Knowing how to dress a kill is imperative for the "Endtime" Trigem loves to speak of.

[Guest sneakboxer]

I concur with all that the others have said but i'd like to add all the good that hunters have done for critters. I know that this might sound like an oxymoron but with a little research you see that hunters (and shooters) funded many conservation activities. Hunting regulation and management was first started by hunters to preserve game that was being over hunted or losing habitat. At the turn of the 20th century wood ducks, turkeys, whitetail deer and Canadian geese were all but extinct by today's standards. If it weren't for special taxes, scientific research, organizations like DU, law enforcement, hunting license sales and habitat conservation we would not have the animals we have today. Although hunters take animals they return way more.

It is good to see that everyone remained polite and professional.

[Guest Bronker]

...A topic like this could have brought out some hostility, but everyone here from the OP and down, has done an excellent job of discussing this in the proper manner...

You blood-thirsty, heartless bass-turds.

If you are biblically inclined, I figured it was significant that God made this clear right out of the gates, for the ethical, moral handling of such matters as we discuss here. Chapter 1.

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

[I_Like_Pie]

Being raised in TN my opinions on animals are 180 from the OP. I honestly wish that we kept pigs and cows as pets rather than dogs and cats because I could eat them after they have overstayed their welcome.

I have compassion for animals, am a 100% prime example of wildlife conservation, and would never kill without a reason....But at the same time have no problem cleaning fish, lopping the head off a chicken, putting roadkill out of its misery, or field dressing after a hunt.

[Guest TnRebel]

I was having this discussion with my fiance a few nights ago ... wanted to hear the thoughts of others.

I grew up in Los Angeles, where firearms in general are a big no, no for the most part. Never met a single hunter in Cali nor did I know more than 1, maybe 2 people with a firearm.

Moved here about a year and a half ago, got my HCP about 2-3 weeks ago, and now EDC.

One question I have been going over and over in my head is this: I have ZERO issues defending those I love. If a perpetrator or animal (of any type - dogs, predatory animals, etc...) were to threaten the safety of me or my family, I have zero issue's defending myself/them.

What I have a problem comprehending, is killing an animal outside of a defensive situation. I am an animal lover (we have 6 "furbabies"). I eat EVERY type of meat, fish, etc.... Don't belong to PETA, and don't think its wrong to hunt. I just don't have the "heart" to hunt.

Perhaps its my upbringing, or just my love for animals. When I see a buck/doe dead on the side of the road, I feel bad. I think to myself ... There is no way (unless it was a survival/defensive move) I could kill one!

Anyone else in my shoes? Just can't kill an animal?

I can skin a buck and run a trout-line .. this country boy will survive .. what are you going to do when The SHTF ? Hunting is something you just can't walk out into the brush and be successful at. it takes practice .

[Guest Drewsett]

I can skin a buck and run a trout-line .. this country boy will survive .. what are you going to do when The SHTF ? Hunting is something you just can't walk out into the brush and be successful at. it takes practice .

I grew up here in Tenn, but both of my parents were "professional" types who had little time for the outdoors. All of their friends are also "professional" types, so I had no exposure to hunting.

I, too, would have trouble taking the life of a deer or other game animal...yet I have no qualms about fishing and have gutted, cleaned, and cooked fish many times while camping.

That said, I WOULD like to learn how to hunt, I'm not sure how much I would enjoy it, but I want to be prepared to feed my family in case we end up in a SHTF situation.

Once I get out of my condo in the city and move back into a more rural setting, where I have a real house, with a real yard, and a real garage where I can keep a deep-freeze, I think I'll try to find someone to teach me.

On a somewhat related note...anyone want to teach this 25-year-old neophyte how to hunt?

[Mike]

I'd be more than happy to take you out hunting.

Mike

[Guest clownsdd]

I concur with all that the others have said but i'd like to add all the good that hunters have done for critters. I know that this might sound like an oxymoron but with a little research you see that hunters (and shooters) funded many conservation activities. Hunting regulation and management was first started by hunters to preserve game that was being over hunted or losing habitat. At the turn of the 20th century wood ducks, turkeys, whitetail deer and Canadian geese were all but extinct by today's standards. If it weren't for special taxes, scientific research, organizations like DU, law enforcement, hunting license sales and habitat conservation we would not have the animals we have today. Although hunters take animals they return way more.

It is good to see that everyone remained polite and professional.

I know there are others as old or older than I am that can remember when there was no deer hunting in a lot of areas, few ducks etc. License fees, stamp fees etc went to building the population of different species....all attributable to hunters and fishermen. Where were all the peta peoples $$$ when conservation needed them.