I got a Toll charge from www.expresstoll.com

[vontar]

OK, I come home from work and find a

License Plate Toll Bill in the mail. What the hell.

I open it to find a letter addressed to me, very official looking telling me where and when and how much. It also tells me how much it will be if I don't pay by Oct 31st.

It is from Express toll.com in Denver, Co.

I have never been to Co.

First thought was identity theft,

I look it over and there is a Tag number. I compared it to my truck and it is 1 digit off.

I was ready throw some pizza boxes or something.

I called the number expecting a hassle and believe it or not the person on the other end of the phone was fairly understanding and claimed to have taken care of it.

She said she found it was not a TN tag but a Kansas tag. So that indicates to me 2 mistakes the camera/reader had, 1 digit and State. Kinda proves at least some fault in camera ID of tags.

I did insist on them mailing me a statement showing zero balance after she said she cleared it off my statement.

Seems they didn't have an exact match and went with the closest number they could and sent me the bill. Had that been a red light camera ticket I would have to fight it in court. I have red online cases where that has happened.

[dats82]

I'd throw it in the trash either way. No proof that you got it, and no proof that you were driving even if it actually was your vehicle. All those private companies collecting fines is a bunch of crap.

It is nice to know they were reasonable about it.

[Raoul]

There are some motorcycle tags in TN that have duplicated the number on car tags. Saw a piece in a local paper recently about someone who had gotten a ticket from the Bluff City camera as a result.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Yup,

I supposedly ran a red light in knoxville turning onto chapman highway. Only thing is I didnt even live in knoxville at the time and was at work IN CHATTANOOGA NO LESS when it happened. I sent the cops a letter for the red light camera telling them I was at work gave my work number told them to verify it and PROVE that I was driving PROVE IT was me. Well come to find out nothing ever happened. They wound up dropping the whole deal.

[vontar]

I take this as a prefect example of how mistakes can be made by traffic camera systems, they had to make at least 2 mistakes to get that 2 me. One number and the State. The paper did not identify the type of vehicle. It did have the location and time, which was between 4-5 a.m in CO on a Saturday morning. If I had to, I could prove I was at work at 7 a.m eastern in East TN.

Had this been a red light or speed camera in another state I am sure It would not have been as simple as a phone call to fix. I won't be certain it is fixed until I get the follow up statement with a zero balance.

I feel I should have let it go unpaid until the fees went up and they turned it over to collections so I could play the Kwik card on it but I am trying it to do it the proper way. Besides I really don't want to have to drive out to Denver to fight it. However if I did end up having to go out there to clear it up, I would take them to small claims court and sue them for every penny I could including lost time at work, my travel expenses, everything I could find to put on the bill.

However I did my part, I called them the day I got the bill and I was informed over the phone it was their mistake and they would fix it. Time will tell.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

It is better to try and fix these stupid things when they happen than to simply ignore them. If you just throw the stuff away and enough time goes by one could very well find a letter from TDOS saying that their DL had been suspended. Then you would have to try and fix that instead.

It does seem odd that with todays technology that they could make double mistakes and send the bill not only to the wrong person but to an entirely different state, that is pretty wild.

I am sure you will but if I didnt get that receipt stating the matter was resolved PDQ I would be back on the phone with them until I did and then keep it for a couple years just in case. I also think you were lucky that someone decent answered the phone, all too often anymore a lot of the people who work for places like that and have to hear every story in the world every day are rude and wont listen to reason.

U dun Gud:)

[vontar]

When I first saw it and before I had completely read it, I thought someone had opened an account in my name. I was thinking O . I was thinking first sign of identity theft, even though nothing has showed up in any of my credit monitoring. Really glad that is not the case.

[Bubba0031]

This happend to my boss, the Public Works Director (PWD), here in Oak Ridge a few years ago. The citation was from some city in a midwestern state that he had never been in. It was an Anderson Co. TN tag but not his tag and the photo did not match his vehicle. He went to the local county clerks office but because of privacy laws he could not learn the identy of the vehicle owner. He contacted the camera company (Red Flex) and advised them of their mistake.

What's funny about the story, at least to me, is this was prior to when Oak Ridge entered the contract for it's traffic cameras but during the period when staff was selecting a vendor and because of his position as PWD he was on the camera company evaluation committee. Very embarrasing for the camera company.

[vontar]

This happend to my boss, the Public Works Director (PWD), here in Oak Ridge a few years ago. The citation was from some city in a midwestern state that he had never been in. It was an Anderson Co. TN tag but not his tag and the photo did not match his vehicle. He went to the local county clerks office but because of privacy laws he could not learn the identy of the vehicle owner. He contacted the camera company (Red Flex) and advised them of their mistake.

What's funny about the story, at least to me, is this was prior to when Oak Ridge entered the contract for it's traffic cameras but during the period when staff was selecting a vendor and because of his position as PWD he was on the camera company evaluation committee. Very embarrasing for the camera company.

I am so anti Red Light Cameras. I could probably write a book if I could write. I am sure my views are different from many on the board here, but the reason behind my view is if you get one of the stupid things you have to prove your case, and still pay court costs even if you win. It generally costs more to fight and win, even if you are right, which to me is just plain wrong. There are cases where the wrong person has got a ticket and have proved it in other states

Plus, I am not certain I trust, how accurate inductive loop traffic detectors are for speed in all conditions and traffic. Especially since they can't seem to detect my truck in the early morning hours when there is no traffic to give me a call for a green light. I have directly complained in writing to one of the city engineer's(I forget his name now) and in person to the Mayor and a few council members(not all of them).

Next time I will try pissing up a rope.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

I am so anti Red Light Cameras. I could probably write a book if I could write. I am sure my views are different from many on the board here, but the reason behind my view is if you get one of the stupid things you have to prove your case, and still pay court costs even if you win. It generally costs more to fight and win, even if you are right, which to me is just plain wrong. There are cases where the wrong person has got a ticket and have proved it in other states

Plus, I am not certain I trust, how accurate inductive loop traffic detectors are for speed in all conditions and traffic. Especially since they can't seem to detect my truck in the early morning hours when there is no traffic to give me a call for a green light. I have directly complained in writing to one of the city engineer's(I forget his name now) and in person to the Mayor and a few council members(not all of them).

Next time I will try pissing up a rope.

You would probably have better luck as would most people if you did piss up a rope than have to deal with these yahoos.

[Bubba0031]

Oak Ridge is a little unique in that the City ownes and operates the electric department as opposed to it being a seprate utility which is the case in most locations. Because of this, in Oak Ridge at least, the traffic lights and equipment fall under the jurisdiction of the electric department not Public Works which is the department where the City Engineer is located.

The cameras are owned and operated by the RLC vendor not the city.

[Guest KimberChick]

You would probably have better luck as would most people if you did piss up a rope than have to deal with these yahoos.

Pretty much. Most of the time, the camera company is responsible for collection of fines. BUT, you have to go to court to fight the charges levied against you by the private camera company. If you ignore it, they'll send it to collection and ruin your credit. They don't report stuff like this to insurance or even put points on your MVR....it's strictly a revenue generator. That's how it operates in Memphis anyway.

I'm afraid that I'll get one for right-on-red somewhere along Germantown Parkway and have to take a half-day's vacation at work to settle something that is perfectly LEGAL to do in traffic here. I wonder if there is a precedent somewhere concerning charging the camera operator(and maybe local LEO who didn't properly review tapes) for the time lost and other associated "fees and costs" for having to prove your innocence...seems like turnabout is fair play.

[vontar]

Bubba0031 I found that out when I went over to find out who I could talk to face to face about the timing on the Red light cycles, not the cameras.

I wish I could remember the guys name, I believe he had Red Hair. I bet you know how I talked to. His office was in the building behind Kmart.

KimberChick

You make some valued points. As the system is setup, a person has to pay to prove Innocent, instead of Innocent until proved guilt.

As for the legal right on the Red. I simply quit doing it where I know there are cameras. I just wait for the cycle. I have a co worker that has got 4 in Knoxville for Right on Red. He says he stopped. I have not seen the video. They where all separate times so it was not like he could go fight them all at once. He would have had a court cost to fight them. Last I knew he did not fight them. I am not a close friend with him so I did not stay on top of the issue like I should have.

[Bubba0031]

Red hair doesn't sound familiar so I actually don't know who that might have been.

I don't do traffic as a rule but I do know that the old concept of signals being timed in a manner such that progression along a given route at a certin speed will allow unintrupted travel is no longer possible. The number of side streets & driveways and the demand placed on the signal timers by the side streets and the volume and varying speeds of traffic make progression impossible. Signal timing at a stand alone intrersection can be done by hand however signals in series are much more complex. The City has twice (since I've been here) hired a consultant (most recently 3 or 4 years ago) to do a computer simulation of traffic flow and signal timing. They are presently timed as well as is reasonabley possible to accomadate the general public. Unfortuntaly locations where there are high volumes of traffic for short periods of time such as schools, Y-12, ORNL, DOE, hospital etc. are the largest source of complaint.

[vontar]

I could be very wrong about his hair being red. Man I wish I could remember his name. I know he was a city engineer. I know his office is in the City building behind Kmart.

Bubba0031, I could show you or tell you about 2 places that are horrible if you are on a side street.

One I complain the most about is the Number 6 red light from the New York Ave side. Currently working OK, but often I get stuck there before 6 a.m. and I can not get a call for Green. Sometimes I end up having to wait for a car to trip it from the other side. Also when it finally goes green I have seen it green less then 8 seconds maybe as short at 5. Yellow less 2.

Now that I have my droid X, with a good camera, I might go out there and video it some morning. But that would require me getting up early on a day I don't have to work

Another one that is bad to get a call for Green, I have not reported because I generally don't use, is at Walgreen's, trying to pull out there. .

[Fallguy]

There are some motorcycle tags in TN that have duplicated the number on car tags. Saw a piece in a local paper recently about someone who had gotten a ticket from the Bluff City camera as a result.

Actually now with so many "specialty" plates in TN even cars can have the same tag number, just for different type of tag.

Once or twice when I dispatched and ran a tag it might come back with 2-3 results. All the same number, but one on a normal tag, one on Friends of the Smokie Mountains tag and the other on a Reading First tag.....or something like that anyway.

[vontar]

Maybe we need to get a TGO Specialty tag with a proud Gun in the middle.

[Fallguy]

Maybe we need to get a TGO Specialty tag with a proud Gun in the middle.

Would only take 1000 pre-orders......

[Garufa]

Maybe we need to get a TGO Specialty tag with a proud Gun in the middle.

That entire silly-ass specialty plate program needs to end. There are over 90 in TN now. It's ridiculous, not only from a cost standpoint but if numbers are indeed being reused, well that's just unacceptable.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Garufa
spelling!

[Fallguy]

That entire silly-ass speciatly plate program needs to end. There are over 90 in TN now. It's ridiculous, not only from a cost standpoint but if numbers are indeed being reused, well that's just unacceptable.

Indeed they are......

What actually showed in the display was a 4-digit code 0001, 0002 etc.... each code coresponded to they type of plate. So unless you had a list of codes and what type of tag matched that code...you really didn't know which type of tag matched the code. I would just have to ask the officer the type of vehicle it was on and see if matched one of the results I got.