Legality of an Auto Knife

[Punisher84]

I see what you are saying, but it only says it is a defense. It is still illegal, and technichally, if they wanted to, you could still be prosecuted. Also, why do you get so worked up over a simple discussion on a forum. If you think this embaresses me you are sadly mistaken. Kinda like if you use your weapon in a posted place. It is a defense to the criminal tresspass that you used your weapon (if justified) but TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, it is still illegal.

As someone who once argued on the whole "it just says it's a defense" ticket, and has been reformed, I wouldn't try it. It really doesn't make sense when you think about it. You can be CHARGED with anything, but when the state laws clearly give you a specific defense, well most people would use logic and conclude that basically comes out to be an "exemption".

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

To me the key is that it is a defense to prosecution not just a defense to conviction. This means they shouldnt even prosecute you if you meet one of these exceptions. Could they still charge you? Sure. Would they be opening themselves up to a PR nightmare and potential liability? Hell yes.

[Guest 270win]

This is why it is best to have your keepsakes or old gifts of collector switchblades at home. I don't carry mine around. I think it is a silly law because someone can use a straight blade knife just as good as a weapon as a switch blade.

[JAB]

What is really silly is that we can be trusted (with an HCP) to carry a concealed firearm capable of a ranged attack at some distance. In fact, if we don't mind the extra weight/bulk, etc. we can carry around eight or ten such weapons - but we can't be trusted with a friggin' switchblade, brass knuckles or a knife with a blade longer than four inches. Like a lot of Tennessee's weapons laws, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I think this is because (like a lot of laws in a lot of places), TN's weapons laws are 'piece meal'. Maybe a legislature with less trust in the average citizen passes a law forbidding us from having something as basic as a cudgel (which average citizens carried for years - probably centuries - to use for self defense before carrying a firearm was possible.) Then, a few years later, a legislature with a different make up that has more trust in the average citizen (or recognizes that they need our votes) makes it legal to carry a firearm with a valid permit. So now you have people who can legally carry handguns - and have loaded long guns in their vehicles as long as there is not a round in the chamber - who could, potentially, be prosecuted for carrying what is, effectively, a short, thick stick.

What needs to happen is that the legislature needs to quit going after the 'high visibility' issues to get the vote from one side or the other and create a comprehensive suite of weapons laws that make sense, together. IMO, our carry permit should be like some states' 'Weapon Carry Permit' in that it would make it legal (or at least a 'defense' as the current HCP is) to carry other types of weapons such as collapsible batons, knives with blades longer than 4 inches, etc. after having completed a class for each weapon similar to the HCP class. I can see such options as especially advantageous for those who may have personal objections to carrying a firearm but might be willing to carry a baton, etc. As good as a gun? No, but at least it would mean more private citizens armed with something.

Edited October 19, 2010 by JAB

[JAB]

What is really silly is that we can be trusted (with an HCP) to carry a concealed firearm capable of a ranged attack at some distance. In fact, if we don't mind the extra weight/bulk, etc. we can carry around eight or ten such weapons - but we can't be trusted with a friggin' switchblade, brass knuckles or a knife with a blade longer than four inches. Like a lot of Tennessee's weapons laws, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I think this is because (like a lot of laws in a lot of places), TN's weapons laws are 'piece-meal'. Maybe a legislature with less trust in the average citizen passes a law forbidding us from having something as basic as a cudgel (which average citizens carried for years - probably centuries - to use for self defense before carrying a firearm was possible.) Then, a few years later, a legislature with a different make up that has more trust in the average citizen (or recognizes that they need our votes) makes it legal to carry a firearm with a valid permit. SO now you have people who can legally carry handguns - and have loaded long guns in their vehicles as long as there is not a round in the chamber - who could, potentially, be prosecuted for carrying what is, effectively, a stupid stick.

What needs to happen is that the legislature needs to quit going after the 'high visibility' issues to get the vote from one side or the other and create a comprehensive suite of weapons laws that make sense, together. IMO, our carry permit should be like some states' 'Weapon Carry Permit' in that it would make it legal (or at least a 'defense' as the current HCP is) to carry other types of weapons such as collapsible batons, knives with blades longer than 4 inches, etc. after having completed a class for each weapon similar to the HCP class.

I think it is a silly law because someone can use a straight blade knife just as good as a weapon as a switch blade.

IANAL but in my non-professional opinion, it probably has something to do with the idea of 'legitimate use'. Most people, when they think of automatic knives, probably think of 'stiletto' type switchblades. They would argue that a fixed blade knife can be used for hunting, cutting wire, opening a pack of lunch meat, etc. The same, they might argue, could be said for most folders. A switchblade, however (if one is locked into the image of a stiletto) is not heavy enough nor does it have a blade designed for such work (again, think stiletto) and, instead, is designed to do only one thing well - stab someone. Well, okay - maybe two things - stab someone or give someone a 'Sicilian Neck Tie'. As such, those who gained all they know about automatic knives from the movies would argue, they have no legitimate use and should, therefore, be illegal. Further, much like EBRs, they just look 'evil'. You can kill folks just as dead with a bolt action .308 as with an AK47 but the AK is a lot more likely to freak folks out because it 'looks scary' while the .308 is just a hunting rifle.

The stupid part is that the law does seem to indicate a realization that the cops, firemen, paramedics, etc. have legitimate uses for them, presumably (at least in the cases of firemen and paramedics) as something other than a weapon.

See, piece meal and poorly thought out. As far as 'assisted opening' knives go, I'd say they simply haven't been enough of an issue for the legislature to get around to making them illegal, yet. IOW, it is an example of technology being ahead of the law.

Edited October 19, 2010 by JAB

[Guest CharlieMemphis]

STAY AWAY FROM ANY BENCHMADE PRODUCTS THEY HAVE VERY SHARP BLADES BUT THEY ARE BRITTLE AS **** AND THEY ARE OVER-PRICED AS **** AND THEY JUST GENERALY SUCK. If you want a high quality folder go with Emmerson.

[Punisher84]

STAY AWAY FROM ANY BENCHMADE PRODUCTS THEY HAVE VERY SHARP BLADES BUT THEY ARE BRITTLE AS **** AND THEY ARE OVER-PRICED AS **** AND THEY JUST GENERALY SUCK. If you want a high quality folder go with Emmerson.

It's umm...the key on the left in the middle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kb4ns]

It's umm...the key on the left in the middle.

WHERE?

[Mike]

STAY AWAY FROM ANY BENCHMADE PRODUCTS THEY HAVE VERY SHARP BLADES BUT THEY ARE BRITTLE AS **** AND THEY ARE OVER-PRICED AS **** AND THEY JUST GENERALY SUCK. If you want a high quality folder go with Emmerson.

Thank you for that.

Let me help you with something.

[Oh Shoot]

STAY AWAY FROM ANY BENCHMADE PRODUCTS THEY HAVE VERY SHARP BLADES BUT THEY ARE BRITTLE AS **** AND THEY ARE OVER-PRICED AS **** AND THEY JUST GENERALY SUCK. If you want a high quality folder go with Emmerson.

This has to do with the thread topic just how?

- OS

[Major Kong]

STAY AWAY FROM ANY BENCHMADE PRODUCTS THEY HAVE VERY SHARP BLADES BUT THEY ARE BRITTLE AS **** AND THEY ARE OVER-PRICED AS **** AND THEY JUST GENERALY SUCK. If you want a high quality folder go with Emmerson.

Benchmade is overpriced but Emerson is a good deal? Huh?

[Punisher84]

Benchmade is overpriced but Emerson is a good deal? Huh?

YOU GOTTA SPEAK UP MK!

[hso]

There is some argument in the switchblade collecting community whether simple possession of switchblades (regardless of age) is illegal or not as long as you don't carry it. The "defense to prosecution" wording is an "exception" to the illegality of possession a switchblade as long as it's just for having as something unique and not as a weapon. If you have a collection it doesn't matter whether they're antique or new as long as it is a collection instead of just an "arsenal".

Being a member of the National Knife Collector's Association is pretty useful in demonstrating that you are a collector.

Keep in mind that you may have to retain a lawyer to convince the DA that your small collection is excepted under the law if you are charged for possession by an exuberant legal beagle.

For anyone that wants to draw analogies with NFA weapons, don't. They are completely different governmental entities that regulate the two.

[Oh Shoot]

There is some argument in the switchblade collecting community whether simple possession of switchblades (regardless of age) is illegal or not as long as you don't carry it. The "defense to prosecution" wording is an "exception" to the illegality of possession a switchblade as long as it's just for having as something unique and not as a weapon. If you have a collection it doesn't matter whether they're antique or new as long as it is a collection instead of just an "arsenal".

Being a member of the National Knife Collector's Association is pretty useful in demonstrating that you are a collector.

Keep in mind that you may have to retain a lawyer to convince the DA that your small collection is excepted under the law if you are charged for possession by an exuberant legal beagle.

For anyone that wants to draw analogies with NFA weapons, don't. They are completely different governmental entities that regulate the two.

What's all this about a "collection" or "collectible"?

The law says nothing about this.

The exception is simply "curio, ornament or keepsake", the definitions of which do not require an item to be old OR a part of a collection.

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Does this mean you couldn't possibly be charged for having a switchblade at your home?

Well, no, of course people get charged with all sorts of stuff all the time by over zealous or uninformed DA's in every state.

There is one lawyer on TGO who adamantly argues that having a switchblade in your home is certainly against the law, period, citing one case in Tri Cities where an obviously wigged out lady was charged with switchblade possession thrown in on top of several other ones (drugs and whatnot) when they raided her home with a warrant. Seems pretty clear the lawyer, likely a public defender, struck whatever best deal he could get on all the charges as one, and simply didn't see any reason to make an issue of the switchblade, which was the least of all the charges.

It is obvious that the statue is written to deter you from carrying a switchblade as a weapon. Not that there's any real reason it would be any more of a threat to the public than any other knife of equal size.

- OS

Edited November 8, 2010 by OhShoot

[MikePapa1]

The curio defense does not apply to a switchblade. As I read the statute it is illegal for anyone not LEO, EMS or military to possess a switchblade. My guess is that in 99% of cases it will never be an issue unless you are caught carrying it, but as I read it, it is still illegal. I find that hypothetically troubling because I know an individual who has such a knife that belonged to his great grandfather that he keeps as a keepsake in a drawer. Hmmmmm, I need to remind him that it technically violates the statute for him to possess it.

[Oh Shoot]

The curio defense does not apply to a switchblade....

How can you POSSIBLY argue that? Especially as a lawyer?

The statue is quite clear than it does.

what in:

"The person's conduct was relative to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament or keepsake"

is unclear that it is not applicable to a switchblade?

Or knuckles? Or hoax device? Or "Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose." ?

"Curio, ornament, or keepsake" applies to all 8 of the prohibited weapons classes.

Classes 1-5 have an additional "non-functioning" requirement, 6-8 (which includes switchblades) do not.

So what do you claim the phrase DOES apply to, then? Nothing? Just some words tossed in at random?

- OS

Edited November 9, 2010 by OhShoot

[MikePapa1]

OK, OH, you caught me. I misread Section C. I came to TGO as a diversion today trying to finalize my arguments for trial tomorrow. I guess I need to focus only on one thing at a time.