Why are guns taxed?

[Guest Joey]

I was just thinking about the illegality of poll taxes and how I don't have to pay a tax to exercise any civil right e.g. the right to free speech, the right to trial by jury, the right not to incriminate myself, the right not to have soldiers quartered in my house against my will etc etc.

So then why do I have to pay a tax for guns and ammo?

Yeah smart guy I understand the government ignores the 2nd Amendment quite a lot.

What I'm wanting to know is if this has ever been ruled on by any court?

[Pain103]

You have to purchase the gun and ammo right? So you get your sales tax from that and the businesses are the ones responsible for collecting it. There is no tax to just own a firearm so therefore in my mind there is no tax on your right. My point of view only.

[Warbird]

If you buy a gun or ammo from an individual you don't pay tax. The tax is on the goods purchased, the sales tax. Not on the property specifically. If they do that then there might be a case to be made.

[Guest Joey]

Right, I get that it is a sales tax and not a general tax just to own a firearm but it seems the same in principle as the poll tax which is illegal.

[dats82]

There is an ammo tax on top of your sales tax. From the comments, it seems like that might not be known.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

There is an ammo tax on top of your sales tax. From the comments, it seems like that might not be known.

True, but the 2nd Amendment doesn't say we have the right to keep and bear bullets...

We pay tax on firearms, because the retailer has to pay tax because they have a business license. Still gay... But how it has to happen.

[dats82]

The tax on firearms is just sales tax, correct?

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

The tax on firearms is just sales tax, correct?

Sí.

[Smith]

If you buy a gun or ammo from an individual you don't pay tax. The tax is on the goods purchased, the sales tax. Not on the property specifically. If they do that then there might be a case to be made.

While practically true you are supposed to pay tax on anything bought, even from an individual.

[Mike]

The tax on firearms is just sales tax, correct?

There is a federal excise tax on every firearm produced for sale to the public as well. it's rolled into the cost of the item when you buy it from a dealer.

LEO guns are cheaper for this reason, they have not had the excise tax paid on them.

Mike

BTW, Joey, love the avatar. NGE is one of my favorite series.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Because someone sent a bill through

Congress and no one challenged it,

like all taxation. Same thing with all

the other taxes you don't think about

when you asked this question.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Taxes are almost as certain as death, but by the finest of margins.

Courts have "taxes" too, court fees have to be paid to gain access to the court... (fees are another word for tax)

I do not know of a challenge to any taxes on firearms.

[JayC]

True, but the 2nd Amendment doesn't say we have the right to keep and bear bullets...

We pay tax on firearms, because the retailer has to pay tax because they have a business license. Still gay... But how it has to happen.

Well actually the 2nd Amendment does cover arms, which would include the gun powder and bullets... So yes it's covered by the 2nd Amendment.

Otherwise Washington DC could have allowed everybody to own handguns and just outlaw the bullets which would be a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment.

Also, here in TN we do pay a tax of $10 (Which I personally believe is an unconstitutional program per the TN state constitution) for a background check every time we purchase a firearm. Also as mentioned before there are taxes on the firearms themselves...

The question is a valid one. Why are we taxed while exercising our 2nd Amendment rights?

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Also, here in TN we do pay a tax of $10 (Which I personally believe is an unconstitutional program per the TN state constitution) for a background check every time we purchase a firearm. Also as mentioned before there are taxes on the firearms themselves...

Are you sure that's a "Tax"... I know fees can be taxes, but I've never looked at that as a "Tax"

If you want background checks... The $10 does it, but that is a whole new animal with the whole "Felon, Violent Offender, and Firearm Ownership" mess....

Straight from the TBI Guidelines for FFL

Page 39, about 2/3 Down.

(e)

(1) The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation may charge a reasonable fee, not to exceed ten (10) dollars, for conducting background checks and other costs incurred under the provisions of this section, and shall be empowered to bill gun dealers for checks run.

(2) Funds collected by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation pursuant to this section shall be deposited in a continuing deferred interest-bearing revenue fund that is hereby created in the State Treasury. This fund will not revert to the General Fund on June 30 of any year. This fund shall be used to offset the costs associated with conducting background checks. By February 1, of each year the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation shall report to the House and Senate Judiciary Committees the amount of money collected pursuant to this section in excess of the of the costs associated with conducting background checks as required by this section. Such excess money shall be appropriated by the General Assembly to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation for such other law enforcement related purposes as it deems appropriate and necessary.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Glock23ForMe

[Chucktshoes]

Are you sure that's a "Tax"... I know fees can be taxes, but I've never looked at that as a "Tax"

If you want background checks... The $10 does it, but that is a whole new animal with the whole "Felon, Violent Offender, and Firearm Ownership" mess....

Considering that the majority of states use the FBI NICS system at no charge to the purchaser other than the funds that provide for the system out of our income taxes, the $10 for TICS is a tax.

[Oh Shoot]

Are you sure that's a "Tax"... I know fees can be taxes, but I've never looked at that as a "Tax"

If you want background checks... The $10 does it, but that is a whole new animal with the whole "Felon, Violent Offender, and Firearm Ownership" mess.....

To echo Chucktshoes, yes of COURSE it's a tax, since the feds will do the background check for free, no TN involvement needed at all.

Just another example of doing badly what need not be done at all, and charging you for it to boot.

- OS

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Anything a government takes from

you is a tax, whatever you wish to

call it; fee, toll, tax. It may be

voluntary or involuntary, but it is still

a tax.

[Mike.357]

It is just one more way for the man to keep his foot on our necks.

While the excise tax does not stop most anyone here from buying a gun I am sure it holds people of much lesser means back from owning a gun or two. And that is the whole point of it all.

[midtennchip]

While the question is legitimate, the answer is much more complicated than you might think. First, the premise is not accurate. Citizens often pay a fee or a tax to exercise constitutionally protected rights. For example, permits (which generally entail a fee of some sort) are often required for protest marches, running for government office, marriage, building on your own property, and many other constitutionally protected activities. Then, there is the big one, property taxes.

In addition, poll taxes were constitutional until the 24th Amendment was ratified. Even then, it only applied to federal elections until 1966, when the case of Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections declared poll taxes in state elections unconstitutional. With poll taxes in particular, it took a specific Amendment to the Constitution to make them unconstitutional, so poll taxes are simply different.

There certainly is an argument that firearms taxes (maybe of any kind) are unconstitutional, but I suspect that such taxes would have to pose a "substantial burden" to exercising 2nd Amendment rights before any court would make that decision. For those interested in such things, I would suggest reading the law review article below (the tax issue is only one of the issues addressed in it, though).

http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/2am.pdf

[Guest mahahn]

There is an ammo tax on top of your sales tax. From the comments, it seems like that might not be known.

The ammo tax is a Tennessee thing. I don't pay a separate ammo tax in Ohio. Bought a bulk box of Federal .22's @ Wally world on Monday in TN. Ammo tax was 10 cents.

There are excise taxes on all kinds of things. Gasoline, Kerosene, Diesel, Aviation fuels. Coal, both underground and surface (at different rates) Tires, Vaccines, Sports fishing equipment, rods and reels, electric outboard motors, tackle boxes. Bows, quivers, broadheads, and points. Arrow shafts. Indoor tanning services. Inland waterways fuel use tax. NO EXCISE TAX ON FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION. Of course these are Federal taxes. In your state, YMMV.

[JayC]

Are you sure that's a "Tax"... I know fees can be taxes, but I've never looked at that as a "Tax"

If you want background checks... The $10 does it, but that is a whole new animal with the whole "Felon, Violent Offender, and Firearm Ownership" mess....

Straight from the TBI Guidelines for FFL

Page 39, about 2/3 Down.

It's a tax... no way around it. But it's not (only) the 'tax' that makes TICS unconstitutional. It's section 26 of the state constitution.

That the citizens of this state have a right to keep and to bear

arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to

regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

Tell me exactly how the purchase of a firearm has anything to do with regulating the wearing of said firearm?

In theory our state constitution gives us greater protection of our god given rights in respect to firearms than our federal constitution does, by stating first that the right is for every citizen and second by stating the legislature may only regulate the wearing of firearms.

IMHO TICS is unconstitutional per the state constitution... but we're happy to keep giving the state millions upon millions of tax dollars to fund this jobs program.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Are you sure that's a "Tax"... I know fees can be taxes, but I've never looked at that as a "Tax"

If you want background checks... The $10 does it, but that is a whole new animal with the whole "Felon, Violent Offender, and Firearm Ownership" mess....

Straight from the TBI Guidelines for FFL

Page 39, about 2/3 Down.

Depending on how you view something doesn't determine whether or not it is a

tax. Governments collect revenue by taxing. A fee for a particular service is just

another way for a government to tax you, and maybe make it seem less of a tax.

It's still a restriction in the way you can do that particular something, whether

you see it or not, and not whether it's right or wrong.