Church carry?

[strickj]

Is there any case law regarding someone innocently carrying into a school or church/school?

[Tnscooter63]

From the conversations I have seen here before as was said before all laws concerning schools apply. I dont have the access now but in the law was about having a board on site and other junk making it a school, which at our church we have what they call a school but is actually a home school curriculum with a weekly meeting of children for study and social engagement and was enough for me and alot of others to carry. What I did was check on these facts of the church.

[farrar]

Lets not forget this story that happened a few years ago. The story says the lady was a security guard, but I believe she was an armed civilian playing a security role for her church. Crazy people do not care where they will try to harm you so if it is leagal then you should carry.

2 dead in Colo. church shooting - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

That's why I carry. Even at church

[Tnscooter63]

That's why I carry. Even at church

+100

[Guest PatriotCSA]

My question is not simply about church carry. I have no moral issues with carrying a concealed firearm into church. It's whether a church that has a school on its property makes the church a no-firearms zone. Seems to be a pretty grey area topic. But I want to be 100% within the law. I don't like being unarmed, but I'm not going to break the law to stay armed.

[Fallguy]

Fallguy, some Private Church Schools, have separate buildings but shared parking lots. Some may use the Church building during the week as well.

So these are a pretty grey area.

So I guess the concern for the OP and some of us could be, carrying in the Parking Lot to the Church building on Sunday Morning.

Yes I know CC and no one will know, but some people like to know for certain if it could be considered legal.

BTW Fallguy, notice I got your name right this time at least.

As far as the Parking lot goes....based on the way I read 39-17-1309© and the AG opinion on parks, IMO it would be legal to leave it in your car so long as you or no one else touches it.

As far when there is a seperate school building I agree it is a grey area. At one time I would have said the church as a seperate building would have been ok, but reading "school grounds" and "school campus" in 39-17-1309 makes me not so sure now.

...and good job on the name...

[Fallguy]

My question is not simply about church carry. I have no moral issues with carrying a concealed firearm into church. It's whether a church that has a school on its property makes the church a no-firearms zone. Seems to be a pretty grey area topic. But I want to be 100% within the law. I don't like being unarmed, but I'm not going to break the law to stay armed.

As you said yourself, it is a grey area, so I don't think you will get a 100%, clear cut, black and white answer. This is just one of those areas where the TCA doesn't directly address a church and a school.

The closest I can come is 39-17-1309 says "Schools", both public and private.....it doesn't say unless owned/operated by a church. It also doesn't say just the school building is off limits but also "any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution"

So if your unsure, don't carry is about all you can do.

One thing I'm fairly sure of....an AG opinon on this matter would not be favorable for us......

[Fallguy]

Not sure if this helps, but here is something I found....

49-50-801. Church-related schools.

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires, “church-related school” means a school operated by denominational, parochial or other bona fide church organizations that are required to meet the standards of accreditation or membership of the Tennessee Association of Christian Schools, the Association of Christian Schools International, the Tennessee Association of Independent Schools, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, the Tennessee Association of Non-Public Academic Schools, the Tennessee Association of Church Related Schools or a school affiliated with Accelerated Christian Education, Inc.

( The state board of education and local boards of education are prohibited from regulating the selection of faculty or textbooks or the establishment of a curriculum in church-related schools.

© The state board of education and local boards of education shall not prohibit or impede the transfer of a student from a church-related school to a public school of this state. Local boards may, however, place students transferring from a church-related school to a public school in a grade level based upon the student's performance on a test administered by the board for that purpose. In local school systems where the local board of education requires tests for students transferring to that system from another public school system, the same test shall be administered to students transferring to such system from church-related schools.

(d) Church-related schools shall be conducted for the same length of term as public schools.

(e) Nothing in this section shall be interpreted as prohibiting church-related schools from voluntarily seeking approval by the state board of education nor prohibiting the state board of education from extending such approval when it is voluntarily sought.

Doesn't really help on carry, but does define what a Church-related school is...

[vontar]

I wonder if Separation of church and state could apply or help, when school is not in session verse when church is in session.

using the definition of what a school is, and

(d) Church-related schools shall be conducted for the same length of term as public schools.

[Guest 1010011010]

What happens if you carry and the building or area is not properly posted with the 6"x14" signs stating "FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY."?

[Fallguy]

I wonder if Separation of church and state could apply or help, when school is not in session verse when church is in session.

using the definition of what a school is, and

Not sure I follow.

The law is fairly clear...the state can't interfer in a church school, except that they have to be for the same term.

A state run school is a school 24/7 as far as carry goes......I would think the TCA sees it as the same for a Church-related school

[Fallguy]

What happens if you carry and the building or area is not properly posted with the 6"x14" signs stating "FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY."?

According the AG opinion on the posting of parks, there has been a case where a person was convicted of carry on school property even though those signs were not posted.

[vontar]

At least you know the difference.

Going back to your 10:38 comment. I dated 3 English majors in college. I married the last one and I still don't get it right. If I take enough time I can do better, but like allot of people I rush though and get the general idea out. I know the little errors end up over shadowing my intended meaning at times. Just one of those faults I need to work on in bettering myself.

leroy

Maybe when Glock23ForMe, had his stole, you could have gave him that advise from Luke 22:36. I would have had I thought of it.

[Guest TigerDirect]

I carry every service. There's quite a few of us in my church that carry.

[MudBugjr]

I carry every service as well. My wife and I even teach 3-5 grader sunday school.

[leroy]

....Pagans take their guns to chu'ch?.....

I'ts a hopeful thought!! The Lord works in mysterious ways!

Sharp eye!!

Keep up the good work!!!

Brother Leroy

[Guest 270win]

I carry everytime I go to church. I use an ankle holster for my S&W 642 because I am wearing dress slacks. It is more comfortable for me to carry that way than my pocket holster.

[Guest nasdaqtrader]

This is my first post, so I hope it comes across ok. I always carry in church on my person unless I'm not wearing a sweater or jacket, then I carry in my leather case which is always close by. I'm the church pastor btw. There are at least 2 others in the church who have their HCP but they don't carry. I wish they would.

[vontar]

This is my first post, so I hope it comes across ok. I always carry in church on my person unless I'm not wearing a sweater or jacket, then I carry in my leather case which is always close by. I'm the church pastor btw. There are at least 2 others in the church who have their HCP but they don't carry. I wish they would.

I have heard my dad talk about a pastor at a small church from when he was growing up, well before HCP, that carried to church. He joked that kept fingers out of the offering plate as it was passed around.

[Guest guardlobo]

I think carrying in church is a great idea, but if there are multiple individuals they should get a plan together. That way you don't get each other in a crossfire, but can put the bad guy there instead.

[Guest danmar]

My wife and I carry at church. Someone said why ? Well, churches is full of infidels! I refuse to be an easy target nor am I turning the other cheek for a crazy maniac fanatics !

[leroy]

....This is my first post, so I hope it comes across ok. I always carry in church on my person unless I'm not wearing a sweater or jacket, then I carry in my leather case which is always close by. I'm the church pastor btw. There are at least 2 others in the church who have their HCP but they don't carry. I wish they would. ...

What a great thing! You are to be commended!! This fits right in with the old time story about the Revolutionary War era presbyterian pastor that regularly laid his flintlock tower pistol on the pulpit podium during the service; ostensibly to keep down quibbling and fighting within the church. I think it's a great idea!!

Keep up the good work!

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Chucktshoes]

In discussion with another guy where I attend, the subject of HCP and carrying at church came up. He said he just kinda felt bad carrying at church so he didn't and then he asked why I do. I responded with "Because I might have to shoot somebody" (Thanks Robbiev for that line"). We went on to discuss the number of crazy church shootings that have happened over the last few years. He carries at church now.

I am coordinating a get together at the range for the guys at church. Next we plan on a range trip for our youth.

[Guest peacexxl]

Joined a new church this past month. As it turn out one of the ministries (some would call them auxillaries) is the Watchmen Ministry. It's basically a security force to look after the pastor as well as the congregation and the property. Not only are they all armed but they require you to get the Armed/Unarmed Guard certification through the state. In addition, the organize advance training through various resources, most commonly RUSA from what I here. Haven't been excited about church in a while, hence the move, but this is definitely helping my enthusiasm.

[LA_357SIG]

Just curious here, why would it be a big deal to carry at church? I know the OP was asking about the school aspect (which would make it illegal if the church doubled as a school IMO) but why would carrying at church be any different then carrying at Wal-Mart, or anywhere else? I have read discussions and had conversations that give me the impression some seem to think carrying at church is taboo and I don't understand why that is.

In Louisiana, where I got my CHP is is illegal to carry in churches, mosques and synagogues or and defined places of worship. When I got my permit switched to TN I didn't carry in church out of habit. Now that I've backslid so far, it doesn't really matter.