Firefighters let man's home burn down over $75 fee.

[mav]

If most of what I've seen here is what is representative of the "Christian Conservative" then I'm damn glad to call myself a moderate. I have always been about personal responsibility and making my own way and I have done so all my life, but sometimes in life people deserve some help and compassion.

While I would never classify myself as moderate (pretty far right actually), well said. I am sure that people have conned me out of a little money in the past. But the way I look at is I have no idea whether they are sincere or not, so I often give them the benefit of the doubt.

Now, if you get me on the topic of bailing people out on their homes because the paid too much for it and now they are upside down, I shift far to the right very quickly.

[Punisher84]

Now, if you get me on the topic of bailing people out on their homes because the paid too much for it and now they are upside down, I shift far to the right very quickly.

There we are very much in agreement. I would agree even to the point of not getting car insurance and your car being stolen or destroyed, it sucks, but you did spin the wheel. Just when it comes to someones entire home...

[daddyo]

If I lived in Obion County, and I was one of the residents who paid the $75 fee every year, I would not be bothered at all if someone who could not pay the fee received fire protection. But it would piss me off to no end for someone to receive protection who CHOSE not to pay. BIG difference.

[Guest trigem]

Did you read the article? He said he would pay. He didn't ask for a hand out.

You guys that are comparing this to healthcare and insurance need to get a grip and read the full article and go beyond your own narrow views.

I'm not a supporter of forced healthcare and I'm not an Obama supporter. I'm talking about basic human decency.

I would have pulled the hose off the truck and put the fire out by myself if I was on that crew. If you wouldn't then I just hope you are never in a position to come on TGO and complain about anything because I'll be first in line to tell you it was your fault no matter what the spin.

Some of the responses here are why we are ****ed as a species.

+1

[G27]

Yea because I guess we should just let people freeze to death because they missed a payment. I seriously think the problem here is that some of you are so jaded by the people who have NEVER contributed you forget that there are some people out there who actually deserve a little help and compassion now and then.

Or, in my case, it's that I don't believe it's the government's place to be compassionate with my tax dollars - I should have the right to do that on my own.

Should the city have had something in place for just this sort of an event? Certainly, but when someone says something like 'I knew I hadn't paid, I thought they'd come anyway...' it really confirms that our unbelievably manipulative government has conditioned some people to think of it as their daddy.

I'm not going to list the things I do for folks because I don't do them for self-glory, but don't make the mistake that because I support the FD's decision in this case that I don't have compassion for my fellow man. It's just at some point there has to be a limit to what 'daddy' will do. Some of us pay absolutely stupid amounts in taxes each year above and beyond our charitable giving, so when someone appears to have an attitude of entitlement, well...

[Guest trigem]

I don't see this as freeloading. I see this as careless yes, but like Mav said something should have been done different. Remember who you're talking to Brad, every night I see people who are on welfare, Tenncare, or no insurance, etc leeching off us at the hospital and the TN tax payer. They are rarely ever in a life threatening or even serious situation.

The guy paid his price for his careless stupidity and I agree he should have. I just think he should have been able to have his house saved and paid dearly monetarily to the fire dept after.

I've known people who have been victims of house fires even when a FD responded. It's a horrible thing I just don't think someone with a heart could stand by and watch. Everything he has is gone now. Some things I'm sure he'll never be able to replace.

So if you can sit there and tell me that's ok from a moral stand point then you are certainly not who I thought you were.

+1 Glad I never make a bad decision, I would be left to the wolfs..

Life is all about money, there was once a day when people would help neighbors if they liked them or not, Sad, but those days are gone

These days are evil, neighbors no longer love one another, just turn a blind eye and pretend you don't see the need, don't count on any person,

I put my trust in Jesus the Christ, and Him alone.

Edited October 7, 2010 by trigem

[Punisher84]

Here's the latest.

Woman Says Firefighters Blameless In House Burning|myEyewitnessNews.com, Memphis News, Entertainment, Videos, Business Search and Shopping

SOUTH FULTON, Tenn. (AP) — A woman whose house burned to the ground as firefighters stood and watched says she does not blame them because they were following orders.

Paulette Cranick said Wednesday she's just thankful no one was hurt in the fire last week that destroyed the doublewide trailer in rural northwest Tennessee.

Firefighters did not try to save the burning structure because Cranick had not paid the annual $75 subscription fee for fire protection. Firefighters went to the scene to keep flames from spreading to nearby property whose owners had paid the fee.

Cranick said her family had paid the fee in the past but simply forgot it recently. She and her husband are now living in their year old camper and a 21-year-old grandson who lived with them is living with his mother.

The Cranick's lost all of their belongings in the fire, including three dogs and a cat.

The Humane Society of the United States issued a statement Wednesday regarding the Obion County fire policy.

"It is inexcusable that three dogs and a cat would have to die in such a horrible way, with firefighters ordered to not intervene, because of an unpaid $75 service fee. Putting out fires is a matter of life and death for people and animals, and South Fulton city officials should quickly reconsider their emergency response policies before others are put at risk," said Leighann McCollum, Tennessee state director for The HSUS.

[Mike.357]

It's $1200/hour per now....

Establish Your Rural/Metro Fire Service

they are trying to scare me into subscribing. Bastards, its working

[Mike.357]

forgot to add, they should have put the fire out and sorted it out later.

I am appalled at some attitudes around here.

Before you damn others you ought to be awful sure you will never need another's help, and never is a long time.

[wipfel]

There we are very much in agreement. I would agree even to the point of not getting car insurance and your car being stolen or destroyed, it sucks, but you did spin the wheel. Just when it comes to someones entire home...

+1

Does he "deserve" the FD's help? No, but I don't think I could have stood by and watched his house burn either. How many times have we all been shown mercy by others when we don't deserve it.

[Sheepdog]

Just chipping in my $0.02...

I've lived outside the Chattanooga city limits for about five years. For five years, I've been getting "bills" from the local volunteer fire department, oh...every couple of months or so. And I have uniformly disregarded them. Not "forgot" to pay them. Disregarded. Filed in the circular file. Tossed 'em.

I read about Mr. Cranic's plight last night, and had a brutal "come to Jesus" moment, in which I was quite honest with myself.

Yes, I was spinning the wheel, thinking that the odds of a fire were quite small. Lived damn near 40 years without a house fire, have quite a bit of experience as an adolescent (extended) pyromaniac, have learned some good, painful lessons about how to be safe with the hot stuff. Didn't think it would happen to me.

But then, I thought, what if it did? It was then that I had to admit that yes, I would have expected somebody to show up. Somebody with a big, expensive, shiny truck with flashy lights and squirty things, to save my home. Some people who would (hopefully) risk their own asses to pull mine, and my wife's, and my kids' out, if we were trapped.

And I'd be expecting them to show up out of charity. Nevermind any expectations of getting paid after the fact--people who lose their houses and all their stuff have priorities for getting their lives back together, and it's a damn good bet that replacing the 60" Plasma TV is going to come before paying the bills of the guys who showed up, uninvited, to create a lot of water damage. Especially if they were too damn cheap to pay a much smaller amount beforehand.

So last night, I dug through a stack of old junk mail, and found a bill for the local VFD. $108 to provide fire fighting services, when needed, 24-hours a day, 365 days a year. I sent a check electronically right then. And I'll continue to do so every year, until I am incorporated by the City of Chattanooga, and then I'll go back to bitching about my increased property taxes.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Sheepdog

[KahrMan]

forgot to add, they should have put the fire out and sorted it out later.

I am appalled at some attitudes around here.

Before you damn others you ought to be awful sure you will never need another's help, and never is a long time.

Well Said!

[Guest Phantom6]

It is a sad thing that this man and family lost everything. It is even more sad that he traded his $75 added wealth in exchange for the loss of his family's belongings and the roof over their heads. This man knew what the consequences were in refusing to do his part in supporting the local fire dept. yet he chose to accept the possibility of his own destruction. This situation is emblematic of where we are as a nation today. There seems to be near as many people cashing government checks as there are cashing pay checks. For those that truely can not do for themselves, yes we need to to have some sort of safety net but for those that are perfectly capable of doing for themselves yet they choose not to, they should be left to their own withering destruction as this man was. If the fire department had fought to put this structure out they would have been unfaithful to all the rest of the people in their district that had accepted their responsibility of supporting the department. The people that suck up services without contribution are what we called "check-valves" when I was growing up. This guy was a check-valve and it cost him and his family mightily.

[safeandsecure]

But. Firefighters all over U.S. are eager to be compared to NYFD.

Where did those firefighters left their patriotism that day

First, I won't get into this whole discussion over what was right, wrong, etc. Been in the firefighting "business" for 30+ years. But the last part of what you stated ... I have to answer that: First, you are absolutely right. Firefighters (ESPECIALLY the volunteers) all over the US are eager to be compared to the FDNY (NOT the "NYFD") ...

You know why? FDNY has all their gear, equipment, and training paid for through taxes. I know a BUNCH of volunteer firefighters right here in middle Tennessee who 1) buy their own bunker gear and SCBAs, 2) have bean suppers or other fund raisers to buy their equipment (with a new engine (that's firetruck to you, Strel) starting somewhere around $175,000 ... so they buy "used" apparatus, and 3) pay for their own training. Sometimes, for a fact, they even pump the fuel for the apparatus out of their own pockets.

So yeah. I know a BUNCH of volunteer FFs who'd like to be compared to the FDNY.

Do NOT question their "patriotism" OR their dedication to their fellow man. You have absolutely no clue.

As for the FD in question: The firefighters in that department that you slandered did NOT have a choice. They were ORDERED NOT to respond. Blame somebody else if you want, but not the guys on the "red trucks."

All right. Off my soap box now.

[jeremy155rr]

I was a firefighter for rural/metro for a while back in the day and yes if you don't subscribe to their services they will still put your fire out but send you a hefty bill. Thats how they get paid - via subscribers, subscribers whose taxes do not include gov't provided fire protection services. Its always striked me as odd that county LE gets paid through taxes where as the county fire dept does not. <THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT IS NOT BASED ON KNOWLEDGE, JUST A PRESUMPTION....NEVER HEARD OF A LE FEE MYSELF

With that being said, and with me not having read the original story, I can't believe that fire dept did not operate under the same practices as other subscription based fire departments. Maybe the county would not allow the fd to bill people??? Don't know, either way its crappy, i'm sure they really wanted to put the fire out, and if it had been me I would have tried my hardest to do so. I'll go read the story now

[Punisher84]

As for the FD in question: The firefighters in that department that you slandered did NOT have a choice. They were ORDERED NOT to respond. Blame somebody else if you want, but not the guys on the "red trucks."

All right. Off my soap box now.

Everyone has a choice. So they followed orders. Good for them. I learned in the Army not to follow a bull**** order.

[Good_Steward]

I can understand both sides, but that doesn't mean I agree. If there is one person here who says that they could have stood there without trying to help that family, then there's nothing I can say to you. Must be hard to look in the mirror or sleep at night.

This is not about politics, folks, this is about $75, and letting a man lose everything over $75 to prove a point.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Good_Steward

[DaveTN]

If he didn’t pay the fee; they weren’t required to respond… simple as that.

However… they did respond and were on scene. My father-in-law was a Fire Fighter and as a cop I worked with many of them. I don’t think a single one I know would have stood by and watched the guys house burn. Apparently it was this guys misfortune that the Firemen in his area didn’t have the basic principals it takes to be a first responder.

I didn’t read this whole thread, were these full time firemen that stood by and watched or volunteers? Either way they should be ashamed.

[TGO David]

All I'm saying is it takes a real son of a bitch to watch another man's property burn to the ground over $75. You can let that hit you however you want it to.

Paid, unpaid... doesn't matter. People on TGO love to talk about the "slippery slope" in various arguments and I'm telling you, the slippery slope here is that this sets a dangerous precedent. Do you want some douchebag asking you for a credit card before he extricates you and your family from an overturned vehicle on I-24? Do you want him walking past your vehicle because it's got Knox county plates and you're overturned in Davidson county?

I say bulls__. Volunteer or paid, these jerkoffs were on the job and their prescribed duty is to protect life and property. You can sort out matters of $75 AFTER. If I'm ever drowning in a flood and some jackass public safety representative pauses to rescue me to verify that I've paid my $75 to his town, I'm dragging that SOB under with me and choking the **** out of him with my last breath.

Wrong is WRONG and I can't believe some of you are defending their actions. What they did was absolutely shameful and reprehensible. Further, I bet it didn't convert the homeowner to a future customer either.

[G27]

+1

Does he "deserve" the FD's help? No, but I don't think I could have stood by and watched his house burn either. How many times have we all been shown mercy by others when we don't deserve it.

Good call.

I said in another thread - it's appalling that the city had this policy with NO METHOD of dealing with this potential issue. Incredibly short sighted, and now the man lost everything due to what appears to be an oversight on his part.

It's sad, and it sucks. While I support the FD in this - they were following orders in a town where, it appears, not doing so would have resulted in at least termination (easy to talk about doing the right thing that costs you your job when there's zero chance of you getting a job without moving your family), and possibly prosecution by a seemingly short-sighted and steel-fisted government - I hold both the homeowner and the city officials who made this rule with no method of dealing with this issue (which was bound to arise eventually).

Edited October 7, 2010 by crimsonaudio

[G27]

Just sucks all around, no way to say it otherwise. Seems like most every party in this was wrong from some perspective.

Feel terrible for that guy, though.

You know, Punisher, you're right. I mean, I'm pissed at all the entitlement stuff that happens, but man - it's not like this guy was riding the gravy train. Lumping him in with the folks I despise (those who live off the gov't tit) isn't fair to him. I'm sure more taxes are wasted every day on folks who don't deserve it that what it would have cost to try to save his home...

Just sucks all around.

Edited October 7, 2010 by crimsonaudio

[daddyo]

All I'm saying is it takes a real son of a bitch to watch another man's property burn to the ground over $75. You can let that hit you however you want it to.

Paid, unpaid... doesn't matter. People on TGO love to talk about the "slippery slope" in various arguments and I'm telling you, the slippery slope here is that this sets a dangerous precedent. Do you want some douchebag asking you for a credit card before he extricates you and your family from an overturned vehicle on I-24? Do you want him walking past your vehicle because it's got Knox county plates and you're overturned in Davidson county?

I say bulls__. Volunteer or paid, these jerkoffs were on the job and their prescribed duty is to protect life and property. You can sort out matters of $75 AFTER. If I'm ever drowning in a flood and some jackass public safety representative pauses to rescue me to verify that I've paid my $75 to his town, I'm dragging that SOB under with me and choking the **** out of him with my last breath.

Wrong is WRONG and I can't believe some of you are defending their actions. What they did was absolutely shameful and reprehensible. Further, I bet it didn't convert the homeowner to a future customer either.

David, with all due respect, you'll never see the truth of the matter until you get your emotions out of the way.

Yes, it sucks that the man lost his home. I empathize with him. But he had no right to expect any services if it was made clear up front that the fee was not optional. He let $75 come between him and his home. I also understand that he was the one who started the fire. I really don't see how anyone can blame the FD for this.

If his life had been in danger, I have no doubt that they would have rendered life-saving services.

[mikegideon]

forgot to add, they should have put the fire out and sorted it out later.

I am appalled at some attitudes around here.

Before you damn others you ought to be awful sure you will never need another's help, and never is a long time.

Glen Beck said let 'er burn. As you know, Glen's voice comes directly from God. So, what you got against God?

[vontar]

I wonder if Fire Departments are setting themselves up for trouble with rural subscription based fire protection because what if say there are 2 fires at a time at 2 separate subscribers and they can only respond to 1?

[vontar]

Glen Beck said let 'er burn. As you know, Glen's voice comes directly from God. So, what you got against God?

If Glen tells me to pick up the serpent and drink deadly poison, I don't think I will be doing that either.