Firefighters let man's home burn down over $75 fee.

[vontar]

True if you forget to pay your health insurance you have to pay the doctor yourself, but the ER won't turn you away if you show up with with a broke leg. They will fix you and send you home with a bill.

[Guest KimberChick]

True if you forget to pay your health insurance you have to pay the doctor yourself, but the ER won't turn you away if you show up with with a broke leg. They will fix you and send you home with a bill.

Yeah, but the hippocratic oath doesn't apply to volunteer fire departments either.

How about this one. If I don't pay my utility bill MLGW shuts off my gas and electricity. Now, should they come turn it back when it's 19 degrees outside, not because I've paid, but because I now need their services to run my heat? Oh, I promise to pay after...it just slipped my mind...

Yeah, losing a house over $75 bucks sounds crazy, but he knew what he needed to do to have them hose down his place. given some of his own quotes, it appears that he chose not to do that.

Edited October 6, 2010 by KimberChick

[vontar]

BTW, I keep trying to find a new story that lists the offical cause of the fire, other then just someone saying someone was irgnoring a fire ban.

If someone has a link that lists an offical cause please post it.

[Guest jeliggett]

Why would anyone expect services for free? Nothing in life is free. If you live in the city you pay for fire protection in property taxes. If you don't live in the city you pay for fire protection. No pay No show. I have no problem with that. Now morally I would have a hard time not helping. With that said, only one person is to blame. The homeowner with a premium for a service not paid. Try not paying electric, water, CATV, or garbage pick-up and see what happens.

[Guest jackdm3]

The longer this thread goes on, the more I think of this:

[video=youtube;Adgx9wt63NY]http://

Shame for the pets. They may be worth more than their owners.

Edited October 6, 2010 by jackdm3

[BigK]

This Crannick guy admitted: "I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong."

He gambled and lost. What makes me the most angry about all this is that most folks I know think he should have gotten service anyway.

He set the fire himself with an illegal trash fire. His shed caught fire first and spread to his trailer 2 hours later. During those 2 hours, Crannick had time to get his pets out, but let them burn.

By the time the FD got there it was too late anyway. All they could do is keep it from spreading. Trailers go up quick and are seldom salvageable even if you get the fire out.

If people won't pay the "out of area" subscription fee, the city can't hire the extra people to serve the area or to buy the equipment. What if he says, OK I'll pay the $75 now that my house is on fire and they respond with "great, we'll go hire and train some firefighters, buy some gear and be right out"?

[mav]

I have to admit that this has been a good topic. It has definitely been an eye opener on many different levels. I am actually amazed at the level of rigid libertarianism that I have seen in this thread and on several other forums. While their policy is good in that the responsibility is left with the homeowner, which I am certain that everyone that has posted agrees that is where the responsibility should lie, the policy could be made better without sacrificing the homeowner's responsibility. As I have posted several times, I believe it can.

A fire fighting policy for the rural areas could be written that stated that homeowner is solely responsible for his or her property. Fire protection can be voluntarily purchased for $75 on an annual basis. If the owner opts not to purchase the fire protection, the fire dept. is under no obligation to respond to a fire incident on their property. If a response is requested, the homeowner will be liable for the entire cost of firefighting measures. The cost will be $600 per hour.

While we can't do anything about what happened in this incident, we can certainly do something better in the future. The policy of either pay us up front or screw you, IMHO, sucks. We can still be somewhat flexible and decent without putting the taxpayer on the hook for someone's lack of personal responsibility.

Reagarding the rigid libertarianism I have seen here and other forums, I sure hope that everyone that takes that stance is a taxpayer. According to the latest figures (from what I remember), roughly 48% do not pay federal income taxes. If we took the same approach, we could basically say that if you don't pay, then you get no access to federal services.

If we are to survive as a nation without going bankrupt, we certainly need to move towards people taking more personal responsibility with their lives and reducing the number of freeloaders. We just need to do it smartly and with a sense of decency. How is it done? I have no idea. But, I don't think the pay up or piss-off is the way to go about it.

[vontar]

I know what you are saying, 75 dollars on the spot does nothing, 5,000 on the spot does nothing.

The City is needing to get the money upfront to put in a general, lets say Fire department fund that that they can draw on as needed though out the year.

Until this event, I had never heard of a Pay time fire service. I grew up in a rural area that didn't even have a volunteer fire department. They have one now back there. Where I live now I have Oak Ridge Fire Department.

It is clear he did know about the service as he had paid in years past, even last year.

I guess this horse is has been beaten enough.

[G27]

Reagarding the rigid libertarianism I have seen here and other forums, I sure hope that everyone that takes that stance is a taxpayer. According to the latest figures (from what I remember), roughly 48% do not pay federal income taxes. If we took the same approach, we could basically say that if you don't pay, then you get no access to federal services.

You'd likely find that most of us that are saying "that sucks, you screwed up" are part fo the 52% that pay through the nose...

[DWARREN123]

There are no free rides anywhere but I could not standby if I could help. Should have put the fire out then charged him the full cost.

[KahrMan]

IAFF Condemns Tenn. Dept's Decision Not to Fight Fire

There is a good video at this site.

IAFF Condemns Tenn. Dept's Decision Not to Fight Fire | Firehouse.com

[mav]

I guess this horse is has been beaten enough.

I agree.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Not that it has anything to do with this story other than shed some perspective;

Two or three winters ago on one of years first school snow days it seems it was, either the Jackson FD or the Madison County FD stopped at their jurisdiction line within 1/4 mile and sight of a burning truck that had hit a pole.

A very young man DIED in that fire.

I believe it was determined that the kid most likely died on impact and explosion but the fact remains that Firefighters sat and watched and waited for the other agency to show up. No one will ever know for sure if that kid could have been saved or not, and this was not even over someone paying or not paying a fee. This was done based an order given by the dispatcher of the FD that watched.

I do not recall the eventual outcome of the investigation but IIRC at least one person was fired and another, a Capt. I believe retired on the spot. The two things I know for sure is that it was within a few miles of where I sit and a kid died while folks who maybe could have saved him sat back and watched. And again IIRC the story was that they were not sure anyone was in the truck, I guess they figured it drove itself into a tree.

I am recalling from memory and do not have a link but I can assure you all that it did indeed happen.

As for this story there seems that there are two; one is that the man never paid and the other is that he was only late this year, if the former is true then I would say he gambled and lost and if the later is true I would think someone really dropped the ball. Personally I have no idea which version is the true version.

At any rate no lives were lost and "things" no matter their monetary or sentimental value really have no value when measured against a persons life, even if it is ALL of your things.

[vontar]

Well, that video tells how the fire started as well.

[raydog1]

His interview with CNN this AM:

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

He thought they were coming. When they didn't, he called back to find out they didn't have his fee and weren't going to come. He thought he would still be OK because they waived the fee for his son before. But, they stood their ground this time. I guess somebody had to be the example this year. Turns out they've done this at least 4 times before.

[Guest db99wj]

If I forget to pay my health insurance and, after the paid coverage ends, I end up getting into a serious accident, I'm stuck with the bill. Whether its $2000 or $2,000,000 it falls to me as it happened when I had no coverage. Even if I pay late to reinstate it, that "event" won't be covered. That's just how it is. It keeps people from kiting coverage by only paying up when something happens. In this case, something did happen. You gamble and sometimes you lose.

If it is true they were violating a burn ban and that's what caused the fire, I don't think homeowner's will cover the loss anyway.

True if you forget to pay your health insurance you have to pay the doctor yourself, but the ER won't turn you away if you show up with with a broke leg. They will fix you and send you home with a bill.

When Obamacare kicks in, insurance companies will be forced to pay, even pre-existing conditions.

[BigK]

Emotionally speaking, I hate to hear that the man's property burned down, really, I do.

But, I also understand the legal ramifications of them not being able to do anything because he was not a subscriber. Afterall, what if my brother-in-law gets killed fighting a fire for a homeowner that didn't pay and now my sister's family gets life insurance money, since there was no "contract" to fight that particular fire.

OTOH, if the FD sat idly watching a house burn, b/c the homeowner was late paying his $75, I'd say the system needs to be changed. The honest folks that paid their fair share (IN ADVANCE) shouldn't foot the bill to put out the blaze either, which is likely would happen when most dead-beats get a $10,000 invoice from the FD and won't pay.

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

A fire fighting policy for the rural areas could be written that stated that homeowner is solely responsible for his or her property. Fire protection can be voluntarily purchased for $75 on an annual basis. If the owner opts not to purchase the fire protection, the fire dept. is under no obligation to respond to a fire incident on their property. If a response is requested, the homeowner will be liable for the entire cost of firefighting measures. The cost will be $600 per hour.

The two concerns that still remain is:

A) If the guys house just half burnt down what are the odds he will have the resources to pay for the service.

We still may have the issue of the department not having insurance coverage on that call. Therefore unless we want to pass legislation immunizing them from liability for these calls we are asking the department to take a big risk by making calls with no insurance coverage for themselves.

[Guest strelcevina]

Once this news spread all over U.S. it will be really bad for TN reputation.

First Islam as cult now this.

Being southern Christian/republican state ,with more churches than regular buildings .

It doesn't really matters is it legal or illegal. That man should be helped ..period.

[Punisher84]

How about this one. If I don't pay my utility bill MLGW shuts off my gas and electricity. Now, should they come turn it back when it's 19 degrees outside, not because I've paid, but because I now need their services to run my heat? Oh, I promise to pay after...it just slipped my mind...

I backed out of this monster, but I had to at least reply to this because it's not correct. MLGW WILL and HAS cut customers', who were disconnected for non-payment, utilities back on during extreme temps. They did it this summer by re-connecting and postponing cut offs and they did it last winter as well.

After that elderly war vet froze to death in his house up north alot of places changed their policy. They found him dead with the money on the table to pay. He couldn't get out because of the weather. Seems to me that everyone here was very angry at the electric company over that. Oh well everybody loves the big red trucks though!

[RobertNashville]

Wow...quite a lot of discussion about this issue (it was all over the morning radio talk shows this morning as well). It's certainly an unfortunate situation for a guy to lose his home but no one has fire department protection for free no matter where they live...if you aren't in an incorporated area (and therefore aren't paying for services like police and fire) why should you expect to have those services???

Apparently, since this person lived outside the incorporated are; if he wanted to have fire protection then he was supposed to pay the annual fee; he didn't so when he needed the fire protection it wasn't there....that's sad but that's also what the concept of personal responsibility is about isn't it?

[Garufa]

here in Knox County Rural Metro will still come put your fire out, but they charge you 600 bucks per hour per truck dispatched.

It's $1200/hour per now....

Establish Your Rural/Metro Fire Service

[Guest KimberChick]

I backed out of this monster, but I had to at least reply to this because it's not correct. MLGW WILL and HAS cut customers', who were disconnected for non-payment, utilities back on during extreme temps. They did it this summer by re-connecting and postponing cut offs and they did it last winter as well.

After that elderly war vet froze to death in his house up north alot of places changed their policy. They found him dead with the money on the table to pay. He couldn't get out because of the weather. Seems to me that everyone here was very angry at the electric company over that. Oh well everybody loves the big red trucks though!

Really? No kiddin....didn't know they did that. Must be nice to know that, even if someone doesn't pull their own weight, someone else will come along, cough up other people's tax dollars and bail them out! Ten bucks says, that if I stop paying MLGW today, they won't come cut mine back on out of mercy come February...have a feeling I won't "qualify" for that program, lol.

[Punisher84]

Really? No kiddin....didn't know they did that. Must be nice to know that, even if someone doesn't pull their own weight, someone else will come along, cough up other people's tax dollars and bail them out! Ten bucks says, that if I stop paying MLGW today, they won't come cut mine back on out of mercy come February...have a feeling I won't "qualify" for that program, lol.

Yea because I guess we should just let people freeze to death because they missed a payment. I seriously think the problem here is that some of you are so jaded by the people who have NEVER contributed you forget that there are some people out there who actually deserve a little help and compassion now and then.

I suppose when people pitched in to help buy a member a car or we donated money for gift cards to help people out last Christmas we shouldn't have because they are just a bunch of bums huh? Maybe we shouldn't be benefactors, David works right? Why can't he run his own forum, he must be a bum too. Leeching off us, what nerve!

If most of what I've seen here is what is representative of the "Christian Conservative" then I'm damn glad to call myself a moderate. I have always been about personal responsibility and making my own way and I have done so all my life, but sometimes in life people deserve some help and compassion.

[Garufa]

I can't agree with you more. However, the fact is businesses do not give a .