Any 7.62 x 25 long guns?

[bockey]

Only been gotten into guns about a year and a half, so please excuse my lack of knowledge.

Are there any rifles chambered in 7.62 X 25?

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are a few semi autos but they are generally either expensive or crap. There are a few makers who are producing AR's chambered in the round but they are expensive. But when you consider the cost savings they would pay for themselves quickly if you shoot a lot. The Tokarev round is also a fun round. I think it is a very good caliber and if the ammo makers would make some decent ammo using modern technology it would be a very good SD round.

I have had a few rifles chambered in the round, a couple of AR's and a couple of Savage bolt actions. Here is the last Savage I chambered in the 7.62x25 Tokarev. I would use it to shoot heavy subsonic reloads as well as cheap surplus. The subsonic Tokarev loads I worked up are actually being used by a few people now that are producing the AR chambered in the Tokarev round. The subsonic rounds will never hit the mainstream but makes for a very quiet gun with a suppressor. The Tokarev uses a .308' bore rather than the .311" like the AK. This makes finding reloading components easy.

Here are pictures of the last Tokarev build:

The tube is a tensioning sleeve that fits over the barrel then the muzzle nut is tightened down to tension the barrel. I first did this to try to fix a heat related drift problem I had with a rifle and it worked great. Before after about 5 rounds the bullets would start walking and by round 10 they were 1"+ off of zero but after I could shoot long strings without any drift. It seems to work out to be similiar to a bull barrel as far as stiffness goes yet is lighter weight.

I actually used do a lot of odd projects, over the years some have worked and some haven't. I considered the Tokarev rifle a success because it did exactly what I wanted it to. It was also cheaper to build, load and shoot than the 300 Whisper. And as long as I stay subsonic there were no difference between the two. Reamers, dies, brass are all cheaper and available while the 300 Whisper tends to be expensive on all counts unless you decide to make your own brass but the dies and reamer as more expensive than the Tokarev's.

The Tokarev let me shoot cheap surplus or my subsonic handloads. Even without a suppressor is was a quiet gun. My previous build used a 24.5" barrel and was as quiet as a 16" 10/22 shooting CCI subsonics yet with the heaviest bullets it developed muzzle energy that was comparable to a 357 magnum not to mention the ballistics were better. I did a lot of testing on stability also and rather than try to get a HP to open at subsonic velocities I was able to get it to readily tumble. This was more reliable and created more damage than just passing through. Also, the chance of tumbling only gets better as velocity drops while a HP opening it only gets worse. I did this by testing several different twist rates and getting the bullet just stable enough to be accurate yet unstable enough to tumble when it hit something. I got it to where the subsonic bullet would reliably tumble at 6"-10" of water.

I have had to slow my projects substantially because I was in a helicopter accident in June of 2008 in some far away place.

I know this is long winded but the Tokarev round is a very fun and powderful round in a rifle and if you get one you will have fun with it.

Dolomite

[bockey]

thanks for being long winded and showing photos

[Guest GunTroll]

Cool build.

[Moped]

Dolomite, with posts like that, you can be as long winded as you want! Very interesting!!! I've always thought that of all the "European" rounds, this is the most interesting and by far the most powerful. I knew is was used extensively in WWII by the Russians as a sub-machinegun round, but I've never heard of anyone chambering a rifle in this round.

How does this heavy load compare with the 9MM Largo that was used in the in the old Mauser 93 based Destroyer Carbines? Does this round have the potential to be used in silenced weapons like the CIA used in Vietnam, in silenced Destroyer carbines?

Hope for your continued recuperation from the Helicopter incident in said far away

place!

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ballistically it is better than any of the 9mm subsonic rounds and probably most standard rounds. At 400 yards it still has the energy of a 9mm although the drop is horrendous. I would say the max limit would be 150 yards and with a 25 yard zero the drop is 15 inches. At 150 yards the energy is comparable to a low end 40 S&W. My build was capable of <1/2" at 100 yard accuracy using handloads. Surplus ammo was lucky to get 1" at 25 yards. I didn't fire a lot of surplus because it was corrosive, hence the use of SS in the last build.

I started the original project just to see how it would work out. After I posted a lot of info on different boards I was contacted by a few who are now using my load data in AR's chambered in the round. They practice with cheap surplus then use the very quiet subsonic rounds when they need stealth. I was even told a few LE customers were interested in it. With suppressors I have been told that these are super quiet yet cycle the AR action. I know the rounds feed from a standard AR magazine. I even told one person to try finding some tracers and shooting them at subsonic velocities in FA because I think it would just be the coolest thing to have quiet tracers. It was on my short list of things to try but I never got around to it.

I was looking for a 1911 in 38 super as well as a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine. I was going to rechamber both in the Tokarev, The 1911 would shoot supersonic loads and the Ruger would be used to fire the heavy, subsonic loads. I was never able to find any that were reasonalby priced so I put it as well as all the other Tokarev stuff on the back burner for now.

I sold most of my Tokarev stuff a few months back but I will be building another with a longer barrel like my original configuration. It was a very fun. Most people who pulled the trigger on it just giggled because it was very quiet, even without a suppresoor. The recoil didn't match the noise level. And now that I have worked out the best twist to get the rounds to tumble they should work well on nuisance animals that show up here. I do not hunt and have not hunted anything for sport since 2001.

Dolomite

[ttocswob]

Sportsman's Guide has chamber inserts for using 7.62x25 ammo in either a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54r or Enfield .303 - basically makes it a single shot, though.

Thinking of getting one for my Mosins. As good a waste of $15 as any.

[G27]

Dolomite = cool. No question.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Sportsman's Guide has chamber inserts for using 7.62x25 ammo in either a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54r or Enfield .303 - basically makes it a single shot, though.

Thinking of getting one for my Mosins. As good a waste of $15 as any.

From Sportsman's Guide Website

Your gun instantly becomes low recoil and low noise (similar in volume to a magnum air rifle).

I can gurantee that a 7.62x25 out of any rifle is not magnum airgun quiet. I have shot hundreds and probably thousands of 7.62x25 out of a 24.5" barrel and they are not "hearing safe". Out of 16" barrels there is a muzzle blast that accompanies the 1800+ fps velocity. I never tested velocity on the 24.5" gun with surplus but I gurantee it was supersonic.

Another problem with the chamber insert is the 7.62x25 uses a .308 bullet and the rifles mentioned do not. Not saying accuracy would be great in something with a .308 bore but it sure wouldn't help having a .311 bore. Maybe that is what I need to do, have a few chamber inserts made to be able to shoot the 7.62x25 in a .308 Winchester. There are inserts to shoot .32 ACP in various .308 guns.

Dolomtie

[Guest Drewsett]

Dolomite = cool. No question.

Between the Stoney River thing and this, I definitely must agree. I wish I lived in East TN, would love to meet him and just soak up some of this knowledge.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Not sure if you guys have seen this when I posted it before but here is another project, my wife's 45 ACP bolt gun.

The action is a Savage/Stevens 200 with the same bolt head as a .308 Remington, .473. The barrel is a 16 twist Shilen match barrel with a .451 groove that was finished like a Remington action with a shoulder rather than use a barrel nut. The barrel is cut to an overall length of 17" and 1" in diameter up to the chamber. The front sights are Tech Sights that are made for .920 barreled 10/22's. I had the end of the barrel machined for a press it of the Tech Sites. The rear sights are Williams WGRS with a ghost ring.

Anyways, here are the pictures, enjoy:

Front sight:

A few views:

Rear sight:

Sight picture:

The rifle was built for my wife to use for nuisance animals that show up on our property. She has a few other guns she can use but they are either too loud to be used without ears or don't have enough knock down to reliably drop them if the shot isn't perfect. She is a phenomenal shot but sometimes the shots need to be made in the middle of the night in less than ideal conditions and in the past the animals have escaped to no doubt die a miserable death. She liked the idea of ghost ring irons over a red dot because there is nothing to turn on before shooting. The stock is going to be getting replaced at some point, this stock is my project stock that every Savage wears when I am working on them. I can say that even with less than ideal shots this puts down the nuisance animals well. It is also quiet enough that most neighbors don't hear it and it doesn't "ring" your ears if you do have to shoot without hearing protection.

Here are some loads, the 250 grain SST's remind me of a midget 450 Bushmater:

The others are 230 grain GDHP's that work really well. I recently picked up some Power Pistol and that relly woke the gun up. I have loaded some 200 grain SWC's over the max load of PP and it is amazing how it shoots now, both in power level and the trajectory. It is pretty much point and shoot well past 50 yards which is all we need it for. Even with the max load the primers are still nice and round.

Another advantage to this setup is I can use HEAVY bullets. I recently loaded some 300 grain SP's until I started to see pressure signs. It definitely hits hard but has the drop of a mortar, it is great out to about 35 yards though. I think I will try some slower powders to get the velocity up a bit before the pressure builds and see what happens. I have been looking locally for some even heavier stuff to try, I would love to find some 400+ grainers just for grins but I don't think the throat is long enough.

Dolomite

[G27]

That's pretty inspiring, Dolomite. Do you do all this work yourself or hire a smith?

I've been toying with the idea of building a rifle in .40S&W...

[Dolomite_supafly]

Smith does most of the work. I would drop off parts along with drawings and let them do their thing. Most times they are wondering what is going thru my mind but the folks at Predator Custom Shop in Knoxvile are great.

Sorry OP for the derail. Also, I am far from being as knowledgeable as it may seem. It has taken a long time, countless time and money to get where I am now but I am still learning everyday. As long as it doesn't require machining then I can do most things myself but on a very, very limited basis because of my injuries. I know I say it a lot but I just don't want people to think I don't have to work at everything I do because I do. I battle my injuries everyday and even on good days I have to be very careful. Even small things like going to a range can cause me a lot of problems. Two hours traveling to and from a range and an hour sitting at a bench gurantees me a few days in bed.

Dolomite

Edited October 1, 2010 by Dolomite_supafly

[Guest GunTroll]

On both of these projects how are the rounds feeding out of the mag? Or are they more single shot type rifles?

Very interesting stuff. I often think of building "interesting" rifles but get hung up on long range or hunting style builds instead. I like were your going! Good stuff.

I'm sorry to hear of your injuries. For what its worth....thank you.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Both are single shot. I was going to work out a mag on the 45 but my wife said she liked it the way it was. The Tokarev was just a project gun so I didn't want to permanently modify anything.

I appreciate it but I went overseas knowing the dangers.

Dolomite