Saturday night's all right for encountering LEO

[Chucktshoes]

So Saturday my wife and I drop by my friend's house to hang out and have a beer. It is about 10pm and we are sitting around on the front porch while he smokes, drinking our beer and BSing when we hear the sound of wood cracking coming from a neighbors house down the street. In his little section of the neighborhood the folks actually act like neighbors and look out for each other so my friend and I decide to walk down the street to investigate a little and make sure everything is OK. As we reach the house where I think the noise came from we hear the dogs barking and I see what looks like a broken fence panel. Thinking it might have been done by one of the dogs trying to break out he goes to the door to knock and see if anyone is home and OK. I move a bit closer to the fence, flashlight in hand. When I get closer I can tell that the fence panel is broken from the bottom and splintered out in a way that makes it look like someone grabbed it from the bottom and pulled hard. It also appeared to be very fresh with one piece sticking nearly straight out. It obviously wasn't the dogs. At this point I get real edgy and am on high alert. I move my shirt behind my gun, place my hand on the grip and yell over to my friend asking if anyone is home. He says no and I tell him what I saw and to call MPD on the non emergency line to come have a look around. We then move back to his house to await the arrival of MPD.

Having called the non emergency line we were surprised when about 8 units show up in less than 3 minutes. We walk up to the officers to let them know we had called (still not knowing someone else had called 911) and when we start talking to one officer a second one starts patting my friend down and says "just checking to make sure you don't have any weapons on you". I raise my hands and inform him that I am a permit carrier and I am armed. He asks where and I turn my body to present my holster to him and he goes to disarm me. It took him a good minute to get my holster out of my pants.(I really like the metal clips I got to replace the kydex ones that broke!) I am glad he pulled the entire holster out as opposed to just my 1911, for some reason it made me feel more comfortable. I went to for my permit but the officer never asked to see it. They talk to us for a couple of minutes as we give them our rundown of events and then they thanked us, handed me back my gun, told me put it back on and to head back to the house and they would be back if they needed anymore information from us.

After we get back to my friend's house and are back on the porch finishing our beers, the neighbors who live there get home. My friend goes back over there to talk to them and that is when he finds out that unbeknownst to us, the lady who lives across the street saw us (specifically me with my hand on my gun) and called 911. I guess that would explain the quick response time eh? Apparently she is the neighborhood watchdog and she told him that she was surprised that we didn't hear her racking a round into her 12 gauge while she was watching us when she called MPD. The homeowners thanked my friend for looking out for them and did confirm that the fence panel was not like that when they left the house.

Other than both of us getting into hot water with our wives for not staying on the porch and calling MPD from there, I would say it was a really fun night. LOL.

[Erik88]

interesting, so they didn't say anything about you carrying while drinking a beer? I do the same thing with friends but I wasn't sure the legality. I usually have 1-2 beers and then wait an hour or so before driving home. I've wondered what the law says about carrying on private property+drinking?

edit to add: I'm sure you didn't tell the cop you were drinking but I'm assuming he could smell it fairly easily.

[Guest Drewsett]

Other than both of us getting into hot water with our wives for not staying on the porch and calling MPD from there, I would say it was a really fun night. LOL.

I saw this coming pretty much from the beginning of the post. Oh well, no harm, no foul. Did they every find out what happened to the fence?

[Chucktshoes]

interesting, so they didn't say anything about you carrying while drinking a beer? I do the same thing with friends but I wasn't sure the legality. I usually have 1-2 beers and then wait an hour or so before driving home. I've wondered what the law says about carrying on private property+drinking?

edit to add: I'm sure you didn't tell the cop you were drinking but I'm assuming he could smell it fairly easily.

Actually I think my friend did say that we were drinking a beer but the officers didn't say anything about that even if they could smell it. I Hadn't even finished my 1st (and only) beer.

[Oh Shoot]

interesting, so they didn't say anything about you carrying while drinking a beer? I do the same thing with friends but I wasn't sure the legality. I usually have 1-2 beers and then wait an hour or so before driving home. I've wondered what the law says about carrying on private property+drinking?...

Law is still nice and gray.

Only illegal to possess handgun while "under the influence".

Only place you can't drink while carrying at all by law is in public establishment that sells booze for consumption.

- OS

[Chucktshoes]

I saw this coming pretty much from the beginning of the post. Oh well, no harm, no foul. Did they every find out what happened to the fence?

Yeah, the wives were really not pleased.

As far as the fence goes, nothing conclusive was determined that I know of but that house is at the dead end of the street and it backs up into a patch of woods so . We do know the fence panel was broken by human hands though. Might have just been teenager shenanigans might have been something more serious, no telling.

[MudBugjr]

Let me a question. as far as the officer removing your gun for you. isn't that more dangerous than being asked to remove the gun youself. what are the chances of an officer tugging on a ready to use gun and it going off. i've been asked to remove mine drop the mag and unload before. just seems weird he did it for you. maybe its just me since you told him you had a permit.

[Chucktshoes]

Let me a question. as far as the officer removing your gun for you. isn't that more dangerous than being asked to remove the gun youself. what are the chances of an officer tugging on a ready to use gun and it going off. i've been asked to remove mine drop the mag and unload before. just seems weird he did it for you. maybe its just me since you told him you had a permit.

That is why him removing my gun in holster made me feel more comfortable. In holster= covered trigger. One thing to remember is that they had received a 911 call regarding two suspicious looking (armed) men looking around a house. If I were in their position I wouldn't want anyone making a movement towards a weapon that I haven't fully confirmed was on my side. Just because I have a permit, doesn't automatically make me a good guy. Might be a good clue, but it isn't proof. I have no problem with the actions of MPD that night and in fact give them a big on handling things in a very professional manner.

[Guest truthsayer]

Chuck... I was at Zinnie's East and saw that impressive police response racing East on Madison. Glad everything's okay.

[Chucktshoes]

I'd say that was a different thing as I was in the Dova right next to Shelby Farms on Sat night.

[Guest truthsayer]

That's an even better story, then.

[Fallguy]

At first I would have wondered why the search and question about weapons of witnesses, but considering the call from the other neighbor guess you were suspects as well.

Glad all went well.

Way to be part of a neighborhood watch instead of a neighbor who just watches. Although it sounds like the old lady across the street has it pretty well in hand also

...and not to side track this thread, but as said before the only place that "consuming" while armed is illegal is inside of a place open to the public that serves alcohol for onsite consumption. Otherwise it is illegal to carry a handgun while "intoxicated" Intoxicated being a judgment call of the LEO.

[Chucktshoes]

At first I would have wondered why the search and question about weapons of witnesses, but considering the call from the other neighbor guess you were suspects as well.

Glad all went well.

Way to be part of a neighborhood watch instead of a neighbor who just watches. Although it sounds like the old lady across the street has it pretty well in hand also

This is why I am not upset about the search and disarming. While I was talking with MPD, I was polite and compliant to their requests. Even IF I were to disagree with their actions, I don't get to win there. Instead I reserved judgment until after everything was over and I had more information. Once I had all the facts in hand, I agreed with their handling of events.

[Fallguy]

This is why I am not upset about the search and disarming. While I was talking with MPD, I was polite and compliant to their requests. Even IF I were to disagree with their actions, I don't get to win there. Instead I reserved judgment until after everything was over and I had more information. Once I had all the facts in hand, I agreed with their handling of events.

Well said....

[Guest cajun600]

Ok, I'm confused on the drink/carry issue as well. I was always under the impression drinking at all (whether it be 1 beer, a sip, 12 beers) was a NO-NO. From what I'm reading above, misconception? I can drink or have two while carrying, so long as I'm not "under the influence"? Under the influence = 0.08% alcohol blood level?

[Erik88]

Ok, I'm confused on the drink/carry issue as well. I was always under the impression drinking at all (whether it be 1 beer, a sip, 12 beers) was a NO-NO. From what I'm reading above, misconception? I can drink or have two while carrying, so long as I'm not "under the influence"? Under the influence = 0.08% alcohol blood level?

go back and re-read what Fallguy posted. The only place/time it is illegal to have even a sip while carrying is if you are doing it while at a bar/restaurant. If you are at a friends house or something then it's only illegal to be under the influence. Which sounds like it could be a judgement call of the officer.

[Oh Shoot]

...Under the influence = 0.08% alcohol blood level?

There is no definition for "carrying under the influence" in TCA.

It is a separate offense to have a drink in a public establishment while carrying, whether that drink put you "under the influence" or not.

- OS

[Fallguy]

Ok, I'm confused on the drink/carry issue as well. I was always under the impression drinking at all (whether it be 1 beer, a sip, 12 beers) was a NO-NO. From what I'm reading above, misconception? I can drink or have two while carrying, so long as I'm not "under the influence"? Under the influence = 0.08% alcohol blood level?

go back and re-read what Fallguy posted. The only place/time it is illegal to have even a sip while carrying is if you are doing it while at a bar/restaurant. If you are at a friends house or something then it's only illegal to be under the influence. Which sounds like it could be a judgement call of the officer.

That's about the size of it... If you are "within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages" are served for onsite consumption then you can not have a single sip. Otherwise "consuming" is technically legal so long as you are not "under the influence". However it only really only takes the LEOs own impression for you to be considered under the influence.

Here is the actual law.

39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence — Penalty

(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public

where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-

101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for

consumption on the premises;

and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision (1) of

this subsection (

.

© (1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision (1), if

the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in

subdivision (

(1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant

to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with §

39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

Or..

Sec (a) you can not be "under the influence" no matter where you are. (Violation Class A misdemmeanor)

Sec ( you can not comsume if you are within the confines of a public place that serves (Violation Class A misdemmeanor)

Sec © if you are under the influnece within the confines of a public place that serves you are not only guilty of a Violation Class A misdemmeanor, you will have your permit suspended for 3 years.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Fallguy

[Oh Shoot]

...

Sec (a) you can not be "under the influence" no matter where you are. (Violation Class A misdemmeanor)

I'm sure you meant: you can be "under the influence" no matter where you are.

You're really having trouble with that lately.

- OS

[Fallguy]

I'm sure you meant: you can be "under the influence" no matter where you are.

You're really having trouble with that lately.

- OS

Well no...I meant refering to Sec (a) you can not have a handgun and be under the influence no matter where you are, it is illegal. There is an AG opinion saying that you could even be charged with that at your home.

You can be considered under the influence anywhere...

I could have clarified better, but I don't blame you either...I have left out words...important words at times lately.

Long story on that but anyway....lol

[Guest cajun600]

Excellent, thank you for clearing that up for me. The fact that its up to the officer's judgment on whether you are under the influence bothers me (as all grey area's do in a matter as important as this). I will probably continue to heed caution against drinking while carrying, better for my belly too

Thanks again, Fallguy.

That's about the size of it... If you are "within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages" are served for onsite consumption then you can not have a single sip. Otherwise "consuming" is technically legal so long as you are not "under the influence". However it only really only takes the LEOs own impression for you to be considered under the influence.

Here is the actual law.

39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence — Penalty

(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public

where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-

101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for

consumption on the premises;

and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision (1) of

this subsection (

.

© (1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision (1), if

the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in

subdivision (

(1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant

to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with §

39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

Or..

Sec (a) you can not be "under the influence" no matter where you are. (Violation Class A misdemmeanor)

Sec ( you can not comsume if you are within the confines of a public place that serves (Violation Class A misdemmeanor)

Sec © if you are under the influnece within the confines of a public place that serves you are not only guilty of a Violation Class A misdemmeanor, you will have your permit suspended for 3 years.

[Oh Shoot]

Well no...I meant refering to Sec (a) you can not have a handgun and be under the influence no matter where you are, it is illegal. There is an AG opinion saying that you could even be charged with that at your home...

I gotcha.

Thought you were making the finer distinction that yes, you can be charged with being under the influence anywhere, but can only be charged with having a drink at a public establishment.

Same thing, just I took it differently.

- OS