good news for in-state gun transfers

[Guest salb3039]

According to the ATF, instate transfers can be shipped without an FFL.

18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

[Marswolf]

I'm checking on this, but word I'm getting back is that this may only apply to shipping where there is no transfer of ownership.

[2000silverz28]

I hope this is the case. It would be nice to be able to buy guns on here without having to go through an FFL dealer. Keep us updated.

[Marswolf]

I haven't been able to get hold of my ATF people in Bristol or Richmond, but it looks OK to ship instate. If it's a pistol, it can't go in the mail except under certain circumstances. Looks like UPS is OK for any firearm but you have to not mark the box and let them know there is a firearm in it. Also must be sent from the hub. This might be a problem for those of us around Bristol. The hub is in Virginia. I think UPS and FedEx require next day delivery. Not sure about that.

I checked US Code, the ATF FAQ quoted above http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b and my green book. Can't see anything preventing shipping intrastate even it it's a transfer. Write to me from prison if I'm wrong.

[Guest salb3039]

Write to me from prison if I'm wrong.

I'll be there to join you because I'm shipping one tomorrow. I'm gonna break it down and send it to hopefully eliminate some problems.

[saintsfanbrian]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

This, to me, reads that I have the right to ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident of my state or to a FFL in another state

[shaftbass]

If it's a pistol, it can't go in the mail except under certain circumstances.

USPS ships handguns all the time. My last one was shipped via USPS. There are a bunch of sellers on Gunbroker who ship all their handguns USPS.

[Marswolf]

USPS ships handguns all the time. My last one was shipped via USPS. There are a bunch of sellers on Gunbroker who ship all their handguns USPS.

Yes, but the recipient has to be a manufacturer of firearms or, bona fide dealer, including such articles for repairs or replacement of parts.

You can't ship even in state by USPS directly to the buyer. At least that's how I read Title 18, Chapter 83 in the green book.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

You all have me confused. Can we, or can't we?

[shaftbass]

Yes, but the recipient has to be a manufacturer of firearms or, bona fide dealer, including such articles for repairs or replacement of parts.

Yes but I wouldn't consider that certain circumstances since the situations you listed probably constitute 95% of the reasons handguns are shipped.

But I agree, we still haven't clearly established whether it's legal to ship directly to another non-FFL holder in the same state.

[Guest utarch00]

Bump for further info. I have someone in Chattanooga that wants a pistol that I am selling and we are having trouble meeting to get the deal done.

[Guest canynracer]

I didnt see anything here that says you cant sell that way...http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/23rdedition/tennessee.pdf

there is no law that states you have to register the gun...http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaw_tn.htm

but I did read, no handguns through mail...FedEx will ship it..but what ever method you choose, you have to declare it to FDX, UPS ect.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a firearm to another non-licensee resident of the same state, without going through an FFL. It is considered the same as if you were standing face-to-face. Of course, you are still obligated to verify that the buyer isn't a prohibited buyer.

It is illegal for a non-licensee to ship a handgun via USPS. FFL's may ship them via USPS, however.

[Guest utarch00]

Thanks Frank.

[towerclimber37]

what he's saying is this.

you can ship LONG GUNS to other folks in state, but you have to verify their eligibility to carry.. you CAN NOT ship a handgun to another person unless it goes to a GUNSHOP with a FFL or a person with a FFL.

heck, you can even ship a long gun to yourself if you're out of state...I know, I asked and did it just that way.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Of course, you are still obligated to verify that the buyer isn't a prohibited buyer.

Am I? If so, how?

We are not obligated to do backround checks on private firearm sales...and short of that, I don't see how I can verify "prohibited buyer" status.

On a FTF sale, I do ask the person, "Is there any law preventing you from buying or owning this firearm?" If they lie, and I'm not aware of any facts to the contrary, I'm making what I think is a valid sale.

Regards

[DaveTN]

Well if you go into the UPS terminal in Murfreesboro and “declare†a firearm (as required by law) they are not shipping it unless you hold an FFL or are shipping to a manufacturer for repair.

They don’t care what the ATF says or even what their own rules are.

I’ve had this happen twice.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Well if you go into the UPS terminal in Murfreesboro and “declare†a firearm (as required by law) they are not shipping it unless you hold an FFL or are shipping to a manufacturer for repair.

They don’t care what the ATF says or even what their own rules are.

I’ve had this happen twice.

You've had bad luck!

I just shipped a declared gun from there and had no problems.

I was shipping to an out-of-state FFL, but I doubt they knew that.

Damn Dave, that would have pissed me off...

[DaveTN]

Damn Dave, that would have pissed me off...

Oh… I was so pizzed I couldn’t see straight.

I sold an 870 to a forum member in Chattanooga, packaged it all up and took it to the terminal. When I told them there was a firearm in the package the counter guy told me to hang on he had to get the “Security Officer”. He told me that it was against the law and against UPS policy to ship it. I very nicely explained both the UPS policy and the law to him; since he obviously was clueless. He refused to ship it.

<O:p</O:p

I came home and called UPS corporate. The first customer rep I explained the situation to told me she was a 22 year old college student and the only thing she knew about guns was that they scare her. She went on to start reading the definition of a firearm. I told her we could concede that it is a firearm. But that it isn’t against any Federal or state law or UPS policy for me to ship it. She transferred me to a supervisor.

<O:p</O:p

The Supervisor told me that he would not override the decision of the “Security Officer” at the terminal.

<O:p</O:p

Since I had promised the guy quick shipping; I drove the gun to Chattanooga.

<O:p</O:p

A few weeks later I had to send a handgun back to the Smith & Wesson factory for repair. S&W sent me a prepaid overnight shipping label for UPS. Again I declared it and again the counter guy said he had to get the security guy. And again… the guy told me he would not ship it; I had to go through an FFL. I said “Hang on a minute while I call Smith & Wesson and tell them you won’t honor this shipping label.” He said “Let me check something.” When he came back he said that he could accept it because I was sending it back to the manufacturer. So I asked … “I can’t ship a gun if I’m shipping it to an FFL?” He said “No, you have to go through an FFL to ship.”

<O:p</O:p

I use UPS for most stuff and I can understand that they can have employees that are not clear on the laws when it comes to firearms. But I could not believe that they wouldn’t do anything when I brought it to their attention.

[Mike.357]

I shipped a carbine back to Hi-Point for repair via UPS. I labeled the package as machined parts per Hi-Points instruction. UPS did not even question what was in the box. I know this does not help you in ship a working firearm.

Wouldn't a good safe way to ship be to seperate the bolt on a rifle or slide on a auto loading pistol into seperate packages. Neither package would be a firearm. Just an idea.

[towerclimber37]

heres' an idea...how about they get rid of the stupid laws about shipping firearms and while they're at it, get rid of the ATF

[Im Neero]

heres' an idea...how about they get rid of the stupid laws about shipping firearms and while they're at it, get rid of the ATF

shhhh, that makes sense. they don't like making sense.

[Guest canynracer]

send the barrel and slide int one package through usps, and ups the rest...just field strip and ship

[DaveTN]

I shipped a carbine back to Hi-Point for repair via UPS. I labeled the package as machined parts per Hi-Points instruction. UPS did not even question what was in the box. I know this does not help you in ship a working firearm.

Wouldn't a good safe way to ship be to seperate the bolt on a rifle or slide on a auto loading pistol into seperate packages. Neither package would be a firearm. Just an idea.

No Mike, the receiver of a rifle is a firearm. (Whichever piece of the firearm that has the serial number.) You are required by Federal law to notify a commercial carrier you are shipping a firearm.

I thought about just not telling them, but then I would be committing a crime because they are to freaking stupid to know how to do their job.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

what he's saying is this.

you can ship LONG GUNS to other folks in state, but you have to verify their eligibility to carry.. you CAN NOT ship a handgun to another person unless it goes to a GUNSHOP with a FFL or a person with a FFL.

heck, you can even ship a long gun to yourself if you're out of state...I know, I asked and did it just that way.

Any type of Title I firearm may be shipped to another resident of the same State without using an FFL. It doesn't matter if it's a longgun or handgun.

It is legal to ship a firearm to yourself, anywhere in the country.

Verifying eligibility of a buyer is a requirement, under Federal law, of all sellers of firearms, licensed or not. For unlicensed sellers, that requirement is assumed to be satisfied by asking the seller if they are eligible to own the gun, as unlicensed sellers don't have access to TICS / NICS.

By law, you are required to notify the carrier that you are shipping a firearm. And disassembling the gun into its components parts doesn't make the serial numbered item any less of a firearm in the eyes of BATFE. Now, if you call them "machine parts" is anyone likely to find out the difference? Probably not, unless the package breaks open during shipment, and the shipper makes a stink about it. They might call BATFE, and if so, you could be screwed. Of course, if the monkeys tossing the package around don't break it, you'll be GTG. (And I say "monkeys tossing the package around" because I used to work for FedEx Ground. I saw the packages get tossed around, and broken open.)