Law enforcement in gun free zones?

[lunarpowered]

I was eating at Hueys today and had to disarm due to their "No Guns" sign at the entrance. As I was eating, three members of SWAT walked in to eat and each of them had a firearm which got me thinking, do no gun signs only apply to civilians?

If they were on their lunch break wouldn't they also be required by law to disarm? Is law enforcement allowed to carry in gun free zones?

As a side note, I have no problem with law enforcement or any law abiding citizens carrying a firearm - it's just a what if question.

[Ebow1]

Well, there's no need for them to be armed, because now that it's a gun free zone it's completely safe and there's never any crime.

[Mike.357]

pretty sure on duty cops can carry in spite of any gun buster signage. And even eating lunch they are still on the clock.

[Guest db99wj]

Just because they were eating lunch doesn't mean they were "off duty". Simple as that. They eat lunch, they don't necessarily "get a lunch". They need to be ready to go and locking up their guns in their cars is not an option. Many departments have the policy of that if they are on shift, they are on duty, whether they are chasing a bad guy, driving down the road, taking a dump, or eating lunch.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

As long as they are on duty, they can carry. Off duty...no. Armed security isn't allowed, either. I always loved Huey's and have done a lot of remodel work for Thomas Boggs when he was alive. I guess since his daughters have the business now, the typical female gun ignorance and fear has prevailed. I guess I won't be going back to Huey's. And on a side note. As soon as it gets to where I don't HAVE TO have an account at the Regions bank in Brownsville, I will be closing my accounts there, since they finally put up the no guns sign, too. The world is full of idiots!

[Ebow1]

Yeah, I'm waiting for purchases the clear and then I'm done with regions myself.

[Guest KimberChick]

As long as they are on duty, they can carry. Off duty...no. Armed security isn't allowed, either. I always loved Huey's and have done a lot of remodel work for Thomas Boggs when he was alive. I guess since his daughters have the business now, the typical female gun ignorance and fear has prevailed. I guess I won't be going back to Huey's. And on a side note. As soon as it gets to where I don't HAVE TO have an account at the Regions bank in Brownsville, I will be closing my accounts there, since they finally put up the no guns sign, too. The world is full of idiots!

I could be wrong but I think he was still alive when teh whole restaurant carry issue started and was quite vocal about not having guns in his restaurants. I vaguely remember seeing him in a TV interview about it waaaay back. I think it's the whole Boggs clan.

[Garufa]

Regardless of management's stance, I will always visit Huey's when in Memphis. You'll find me at either the Madison Ave location (where I practically grew up) or Poplar location over any Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Cops can pretty much do what they want to in uniform when it comes to posted establishments.

[kb4ns]

On duty or off, the posting is null to LEOs. See TCA 39-17-1350. Certified LEOs are permitted to carry anywhere in the state at any time with only 3 restrictions - 1. into a school (unless immediately notifying the principal) 2. while under the influence or 3. into a courtroom when they are not in the performance of official duties.

[kb4ns]

I was gonna be lazy and not look it up, but here it is:

(a) Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, any law enforcement officer may carry firearms at all times and in all places within Tennessee, on-duty or off-duty, regardless of the officer's regular duty hours or assignments, except as provided by subsection ©, federal law, lawful orders of court or the written directives of the executive supervisor of the employing agency.

( The authority conferred by this section is expressly intended to and shall supersede restrictions placed upon law enforcement officers' authority to carry firearms by other sections within this part.

© The authority conferred by this section shall not extend to a law enforcement officer:

(1) Who is not engaged in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer and carries a firearm onto school grounds or inside a school building during regular school hours unless the officer immediately informs the principal that the officer will be present on school grounds or inside the school building and in possession of a firearm. If the principal is unavailable, the notice may be given to an appropriate administrative staff person in the principal's office;

(2) Who is consuming beer or an alcoholic beverage or who is under the influence of beer, an alcoholic beverage, or a controlled substance; or

(3) [Deleted by 2009 amendment.]

(4) Who is not engaged in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer while attending a judicial proceeding.

(d) For purposes of this section, “law enforcement officer” means a person who is a full-time employee of the state in a position authorized by the laws of this state to carry a firearm and to make arrests for violations of some or all of the laws of this state, or a full-time police officer who has been certified by the peace officer standards and training commission, or a vested correctional officer employed by the department of correction.

[Guest db99wj]

I was gonna be lazy and not look it up, but here it is:

(a) Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, any law enforcement officer may carry firearms at all times and in all places within Tennessee, on-duty or off-duty, regardless of the officer's regular duty hours or assignments, except as provided by subsection ©, federal law, lawful orders of court or the written directives of the executive supervisor of the employing agency.

( The authority conferred by this section is expressly intended to and shall supersede restrictions placed upon law enforcement officers' authority to carry firearms by other sections within this part.

© The authority conferred by this section shall not extend to a law enforcement officer:

(1) Who is not engaged in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer and carries a firearm onto school grounds or inside a school building during regular school hours unless the officer immediately informs the principal that the officer will be present on school grounds or inside the school building and in possession of a firearm. If the principal is unavailable, the notice may be given to an appropriate administrative staff person in the principal's office;

(2) Who is consuming beer or an alcoholic beverage or who is under the influence of beer, an alcoholic beverage, or a controlled substance; or

(3) [Deleted by 2009 amendment.]

(4) Who is not engaged in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer while attending a judicial proceeding.

(d) For purposes of this section, “law enforcement officer” means a person who is a full-time employee of the state in a position authorized by the laws of this state to carry a firearm and to make arrests for violations of some or all of the laws of this state, or a full-time police officer who has been certified by the peace officer standards and training commission, or a vested correctional officer employed by the department of correction.

...and there it is, great post v

[Punisher84]

Yup! That sign means nothing to the police. Whoever said armed security, why would they be any different? Armed security can't even carry on their license outside of work. They still need a permit.

[KahrMan]

Yup! That sign means nothing to the police. Whoever said armed security, why would they be any different? Armed security can't even carry on their license outside of work. They still need a permit.

So why can an armed Brinks truck driver go in a posted bank? Does the law make exceptions for armed security? I know banks can have armed security but the brinks driver are not the banks employee. If the bank posts no guns, that means everybody but LEO correct?

Edited September 15, 2010 by KahrMan

[Punisher84]

So why can an armed Brinks truck driver go in a posted bank? Does the law make exceptions for armed security? I know banks can have armed security but the brinks driver are not the banks employee. If the bank posts no guns, that means everybody but LEO correct?

Negative. Brinks, etc are in performance of their duties and are allowed there by the business. Now have that same officer come in carrying after he's off work and he's in violation of that sign.

[molonlabetn]

The new law exempts law enforcement.

Under the previous law it was illegal for cops to carry in a posted location unless they were performing their duties (there on a call)... on-duty or off-duty didn't matter.

[Fallguy]

On duty or off, the posting is null to LEOs. See TCA 39-17-1350. Certified LEOs are permitted to carry anywhere in the state at any time with only 3 restrictions - 1. into a school (unless immediately notifying the principal) 2. while under the influence or 3. into a courtroom when they are not in the performance of official duties.

Correct...

Well except 2 actually says consuming or under the influence (But that is in your next post)

39-17-1359 signs have never applied to LEOs (on or off duty).

Now just to a little. AFAIK a property owner can still ask a LEO (on or off duty) to leave private property unless he has some duty that requires him to be there.

[Fallguy]

People, people, people......read 39-17-1359...

It only applies to those with a HCP....no one else...period.

An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity.

If someone without a HCP carries a handgun into a posted place....they aren't violating 39-17-1359, they are violating 39-17-1307. Just as pretty much anyone else is that is armed in public is unless they fall under the defenses of 39-17-1308, or are a LEO per 39-17-1350 or some other statute that allows them to be armed.

[kb4ns]

Now just to a little. AFAIK a property owner can still ask a LEO (on or off duty) to leave private property unless he has some duty that requires him to be there.

Yep. There's no avoiding the good ol' trespassing TCA.

Can't say I've ever had that happen to me, though, and I'd be quite surprised if it did. Especially on-duty. Most folks ignorant enough and scared enough to post don't mind having us around.

Edited September 15, 2010 by kb4ns

[Fallguy]

Yep. There's no avoiding the good ol' trespassing TCA.

Can't say I've ever had that happen to me, though, and I'd be quite surprised if it did. Especially on-duty. Most folks ignorant enough and scared enough to post don't mind having us around.

LOL...oh I agree that the likelyhood of it happening is remote and yes, even more so on duty. Even so remote that there has been a LEO or two on here that didn't think it was so.

Although I have heard of the Old Hickory Mall in Jackson telling an off-duty officer to leave because he was armed.

Thanks for the reply and taking my post as merely providing info/opinion and not as a jab toward anyone. Stay safe!!

[kb4ns]

Thanks for the reply and taking my post as merely providing info/opinion and not as a jab toward anyone.

Don't we have enough folks around here who take things too personally?

[Fallguy]

Don't we have enough folks around here who take things too personally?