cooper/cleaning question.

[vujade]

i have a used Savage 10fp - pre accutrigger but a very sweet trigger. it'll do .75 inch groups with Federal Gold Match 168. Slightly better with Hornady TAP 168. It hits below .5 once in a while when i really hold it steady. Best I've done (taken it out 3-4 times in the last year, with a box of 20 each trip - boy is ammo expensive)...is .45 inches.

Scope is good. Nikon buckmasters. it's on well enough.

No matter how much I clean (soak a patch in sweets 762 and run it back and forth for minutes (but under 15 minutes like the bottle says) and/or with Hoppes copper removal. use of brush. use of lots of patches, etc.), the rifling is still seen easily because it's full of a cooper tint.

1) does a barrel need to be absent of all cooper? or as long as you see the bore and the copper is just evident in the rifling, you are ok?

2) is there much accuracy to gain if i figure out how to get rid of all the cooper?

3) any other advise how to really get all the cooper out?

thanks!

[vujade]

i guess for folks with a savage 10fp - i'm curious if this is 'adequate' for accuracy out of this type of rifle using factory ammo or should I be upping my expectations (and training).

[Kenstaroni]

I'm not sure about the copper situation you may have to do some research on the net or call savage. You can leave some Hoppes in the barrel overnight and see if that helps. Another option is to use a bore brush or bore snake. You might need some sort of brush to loosen the copper, then follow with a patch. Try wet patch, leave for a while, wet brush, wet patch, dry patch, then check again.

As far as accuracy I think it's on par. I had a model 10 Precision Carbine and it shot similarly. I put shots through the same hole on occasion, but for the most part it was 3/4 MOA. To get consistant .5 MOA groups you're probably going to have to hand load. My .308 hand loads with Hornady A-Max bullets are more accurate than the Federal Gold Medal Match I've used and I'm no expert re-loader. FGMM is the best factory ammo out there other than maybe Buffalo Bore Sniper, however hand loads are always king as you can match the load to the rifle and find what gives you consistant accuracy.

Another thing to consider is the bullet weight. The 168 HPBT Sierra is a great bullet, however your rifle may do better with something else, maybe 175gr.

If you're shooting .75 MOA (and this depends on what distance you're doing so as .75 at 100 yards is not the same as .75 at 500 yards, as that's much more challenging) I think you're doing fine. Most of the Savage rifles will shoot better than you and I likely can.

I just picked up a 10FCP HS Precision. I am hoping for .5 MOA, or one large hole will do

[vujade]

Thanks Kenstaroni.

silly question - how do you leave the hoppes in the barrel over night?

Also, i've checked all the misc. stuff. Like it free floats of course. It's sitting on a McMillan stock. This is shooting on the bipod and my right hand to brace the rear.

[glockster157]

I recently tried some of the Break Free Foaming bore cleaner and it did a good job of cutting out the copper on several rifles I tried. As to your cleaning procedures, don't use a brass brush with a copper dissolving cleaner as you could be leaving residue from the brush in the barrel. I use a brushes with the standard Hoppes 9 or even with just Ed's Red. I want the brush to remove carbon fouling and powder residue. For copper removal use a wet path only. If your barrel has tooling marks even at a microscopic level, it is going to trap and hold bullet jacket material. Even if you get it all out, as soon as you shoot a bullet down the barrel, it will return. If I can get .5 to .75" groups out of factory ammo in a 30 caliber, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you want to try to slick up the barrel try some of the fire-lapping bullets. One other thing I use on tough cases is JB's Bore paste. it does a good job also. Be sure to clean out the Sweats very well because ammonia attracts moisture like crazy. The ammonia at that strength will not hurt barrel steel but the moisture it attracts will.

[gregintenn]

Thanks Kenstaroni.

silly question - how do you leave the hoppes in the barrel over night?

Also, i've checked all the misc. stuff. Like it free floats of course. It's sitting on a McMillan stock. This is shooting on the bipod and my right hand to brace the rear.

I have an old Mauser that was horribly fouled. I made a wooden plug and drove it into the muzzle end of the barrel. I then poured the chamber end full of copper solvent and left it standing on the wooden plug for several days. Sure snough, it broke the fouling loose when nothing else would.

[leroy]

Vu:______________

Take a look here: Break-In & Cleaning.

Excellent info on cleaning up barrels.

Hope this helps,

Kind regards.

Leroy

[vujade]

awesome tips here. I regret all those times i cleaned my rifle and 'exited the barrel and dragged the patch back in'.. among the other sins I'm sure I've done.

I'm going to start doing a better job cleaning.