Unholstering your weapon

[kimbercarry]

I read a lot on forums about people saying you should never unholster your weapon unless you plan to use it, I have seen this statement over and over and may not understand the thought processes behind the statements.

My weapon is pulled from the holster at least 10 times/day for bathroom duty, eating (GF says gun butt eats up her chairs), to the shower, going to the hospital ( i have a safe chained inside both vehicles for unusual circumstances) and to bed. I have carried daily a 1911 style pistol almost 50 years without an ND The benefits are: The muscle memory is developed on a daily basis and when you need it, it just jumps into your hand (just like your car keys) without thought leaving your mind free to make better determinations.

Case in point: Took wife out to dinner. When we returned to the car, someone started running toward the car from the left side of the building, his right hand was in his pocket and the left hand extended toward the door handle, my weapon was in my hand without thought (muscle memory). So IMHO, handle your weapon daily.bye the way, the fellow decides at the last minute that he had something else to do

[Erik88]

I think people are saying don't unholster in a defensive situation unless you plan to use the weapon. I don't necessarily agree. There have been many examples where simply presenting a gun has ended the threat. It depends on the circumstances.

What u are describing is different

[Guest Newbie]

I try to unholster as little as possible throughout the day. Unless I'm at the range or something where its a given, of course. I usually only unholster to change holsters or to clean after a day of shooting.

It is true that you have muscle memory, but your clothes or other random things do not. I recently got a new IWB holster (have been using an OWB) and am amazed at how easy it is for the bottom of your shirt or the top of your pants to cover the opening of the IWB holster.

I practiced for a long time, maybe 10 minutes, holstering and unholstering (unloaded of course) to see what my clothes did, what got in the way, etc.

The reasoning is you never know when the drawstring from your hoodie, the shirt tail or any other article of clothing could chance its way into the holster as you're reholstering or when you're taking it out for any of the reasons you mention and someone startles you, you sneeze, you trip on something and your brain changes its focus on what alerted it and your finger slips down to the trigger area.

Just less chances for something to go wrong, I guess.

[mikegideon]

I'll unholster without the intention of shooting anybody. That's different than pointing your weapon.

[enfield]

In a defensive situation, or one that might develop into one, I'm not going to wait until the last second and do a Johnny Ringo fast draw. I ain't fast, so I'll draw early. I need all the edge I can get. Why get into a fair fight if you don't have to?

"Hey kid -- yer shoe's untied!"

[Fallguy]

Ummmm.....no one means don't take it out for the reasons you stated.

They mean don't take it out to threaten anyone....that if the situation has got to that point, draw to use it, not to show it.

[Guest hoss6175]

I carry a 1911 also and I ues a Galco SOB holster and I will pull that pistol at least 20 times a day out and then right back in for these reasons

1. muscle memory

2. to keep check that my shirt tail is still covering

3. to make sure my holster knows what it feels like to be empty I don't want me to need it and my holster to want to keep it

And I do all of this with no one watching (maybe the wife but she's ues to it)

[Punisher84]

It means don't unholster your weapon to threaten or scare someone. ONLY to neutralize a threat. If the threat is neutralized without firing a shot fine, but don't draw with only the intention of scaring someone because they may be more than willing to kill you. It doesn't mean leave your gun in it's holster until the end of time. Lord help us.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Punisher84

[wjh2657]

"I think people are saying don't unholster in a defensive situation unless you plan to use the weapon. I don't necessarily agree. There have been many examples where simply presenting a gun has ended the threat. It depends on the circumstances. "

If you draw your weapon and the bad guy backs down, He can later charge you with assault with a deadly weapon. You better hope you have roomful of friendly witnesses that will swear he was armed and presenting an actual threat. Otherwise the only criminal here is you. Even LEOs get into trouble with this one. Department policy usually doesn't allow clearing the weapon from the holster unless the officer is threatened to the point of firing. Hostage situations and shots already fired have already demonstrated threat and don't count in this scenario. Private citizens are not authorized to draw and brandish weapons to "defuse" situations. You are only authorized to draw and fire as a last resort because you are in fear of your life.

[Punisher84]

"I think people are saying don't unholster in a defensive situation unless you plan to use the weapon. I don't necessarily agree. There have been many examples where simply presenting a gun has ended the threat. It depends on the circumstances. "

If you draw your weapon and the bad guy backs down, He can later charge you with assault with a deadly weapon. You better hope you have roomful of friendly witnesses that will swear he was armed and presenting an actual threat. Otherwise the only criminal here is you. Even LEOs get into trouble with this one. Department policy usually doesn't allow clearing the weapon from the holster unless the officer is threatened to the point of firing. Hostage situations and shots already fired have already demonstrated threat and don't count in this scenario. Private citizens are not authorized to draw and brandish weapons to "defuse" situations. You are only authorized to draw and fire as a last resort because you are in fear of your life.

I think you're misunderstanding me. If you go to draw and the guy drops to the ground and surrenders as you're clearing leather are you saying I should still shoot him? Me thinks not. Just because you draw does NOT mean you have to fire. I can send you some cases to read over that support that. One here in Memphis where a HCP holder stopped a crazy man with a knife in a Schnuck's.

If you draw, but don't fire you call 911 and report it same as if you fired. He who calls first is the victim. The cops will sort it out and I guarantee the conflicting stories of a permit holder and a (most likely) criminal with a prior history will not be too hard to sift through.

[Punisher84]

My weapon is pulled from the holster at least 10 times/day for bathroom duty, eating (GF says gun butt eats up her chairs),

Case in point: Took wife out to dinner.

YOU HAVE BOTH?!

[enfield]

"Here's to our wives and girlfriends -- may they never meet".

[Punisher84]

"Here's to our wives and girlfriends -- may they never meet".

[tnhawk]

In a defensive situation, or one that might develop into one, I'm not going to wait until the last second and do a Johnny Ringo fast draw. I ain't fast, so I'll draw early. I need all the edge I can get. Why get into a fair fight if you don't have to?

"Hey kid -- yer shoe's untied!"

I'm told old to fight and too slow too run, I'll use any advantage possible.

[JayC]

I'll unholster without the intention of shooting anybody. That's different than pointing your weapon.

+10000

There is a reason police officers are taught to unholster their weapon but keep it out of sight in a potentially dangerous situation.

[molonlabetn]

That's because a police officer isn't going to be charged with threatening someone with a deadly weapon. However, if you or I were in a situation in which we are justified in threatening deadly force, that is the same as using it. You can't do that unless you are in fear of imminent bodily harm... so unless something changes between the time you start to draw and your finger finds the trigger, the only reason for you to have drawn is a reason which requires you to fire. Otherwise, you are threatening someone with deadly force for a reason which does not meet the justification for doing so, legally.

[mikegideon]

I think there some confusion about the term unholstering. To me, it means freeing the gun so you can move it to where it needs to go. Just because I free it from it's restraints doesn't mean I'm going to wave it around, or point it at anybody. Just means I don't have to dig it out while somebody is shooting at me.

[enfield]

That's because a police officer isn't going to be charged with threatening someone with a deadly weapon. However, if you or I were in a situation in which we are justified in threatening deadly force, that is the same as using it. You can't do that unless you are in fear of imminent bodily harm... so unless something changes between the time you start to draw and your finger finds the trigger, the only reason for you to have drawn is a reason which requires you to fire. Otherwise, you are threatening someone with deadly force for a reason which does not meet the justification for doing so, legally.

I'll take that chance - it's better than being dead.

[wjh2657]

"The cops will sort it out and I guarantee the conflicting stories of a permit holder and a (most likely) criminal with a prior history will not be too hard to sift through."

I have sat on many juries and this is a very naive statement. The LEA has nothing to do with "sorting it out" this is the purview of the courts and attorneys. Two guys involved and two sets of weapons means a sure trip to the Grand Jury. My experience as a member of the Jury has shown me that defense lawyers tend to be more experienced and a lot smarter than prosecutors (especially junior PAs, which will most assuredly be assigned to this low a priority of a case.)

BTW there is no provision of TN law that allows you as a private citizen to detain an unarmed man at gunpoint. Forget "Citizen's Arrest" as it is so ambiguous that it rarely is used.

If he has a gun out and you have a gun out, it will most likely go down as a "gunfight" not SD and both parties will be prosecuted. Criminals know you can't hold them, it is one of the first lessons they learn from their fellow inmate "tutors" in their first time in the lockup. He is not likely to "drop down and surrender." He will either flee or fire. In either case there will be witnesses that will testify that you drew first (they will have seen you, not him) and will bring that out under examination. For sure, the smart thing is to be prepared, and as a combat vet I agree with you, but that isn't the way the law is written. If you draw to intimidate (impress) you are the bad guy when it goes to trial.

You try to be an LEO in your procedures and you will never carry a gun in TN again, sad fact but true.

Be sure your life is in danger, draw and fire. anything else is going to be a legal nightmare.

In your own home is the only area that you can do it right and have weapon at the ready, be thankful for "Castle Doctrine."

[molonlabetn]

I'll take that chance - it's better than being dead.

That's exactly the point though... if you believe your life/well-being may be in danger, draw and fire. If the situation is not (yet) lethal, there are other tools for such encounters... not every problem is a hypothetical nail for one's hypothetical hammer.

[mikegideon]

[wjh2657]

"I think there some confusion about the term unholstering. To me, it means freeing the gun so you can move it to where it needs to go. Just because I free it from it's restraints doesn't mean I'm going to wave it around, or point it at anybody. Just means I don't have to dig it out while somebody is shooting at me. "

The weapon doesn't have to pointed. A weapon in your hand and visibly out of its holster is being brandished if not fired. I don't write the laws I just have to obey them. Situational Awareness prevails her. Spend as much time learning how obtain cover and using distractions to buy time as you do shooting targets. The better your environmental situation (Cover, Concealment, Bug-Out options, etc.) the more time you buy to draw and fire (or even possibly avoid having to draw and fire. If you enter into the situation with a "Gunfighter" mentality, you are going to look like a "Gunslinger" in court. LEOs will have entered the scene after the incident and will probably only be able to confirm eyewitness accounts. You will have to convince the jury that you were right, and statistics are against you. Most of the jury (all of the juries I sat on) will be composed mostly of non-gun people at best and anti-gun people at worst. Same for the eye witnesses.The smartest step is not to draw to intimidate, but to get out of the line of sight/line of fire. I am sure there will be times that it goes down too fast to do that, but it is still the best primary defense to keep in mind.

Wyatt Earp (very experienced!) said it best: "The best gunfight is the one you avoid."

Edited September 7, 2010 by wjh2657

[kimbercarry]

LOL Might have known you guys are observant. Yep, the incident with the wife occurred when I was married. The post covered several years although I have been accused of having both at the same time.

Right on! I carry the 1911 format which is more forgiving of trapping clothes in the holster. (because of the thumb safety) It is another important point in reholstering, clear that garment! Pull that shirt tail up when reholstering, and pull that shirt up when presenting your weapon. (muscle memory) I look when I put the pistol in the holster because I can never be sure something ain't dangling.

Thanks for the replies,

Kimbercarry

[mikegideon]

How did you take my statement as "drawing to intimidate"???

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Wow.

This phrase is meant to convey two things:

1). Only draw your weapon when you believe your life is in danger and you think it is highly likely you'll have to use it.

2). Only draw a weapon if you have the mindset to use lethal force. Don't draw it to scare anyone, and don't draw it as intimidation. Once that gun comes out, be prepared to end your opponents life.

These types of encounters are very fluid. Your opponent may flee or give up. You have to recognize that change immediately and change your tactics. It's also wise to point out that many bgs aren't afraid of guns. Some of these guys have spent their lives living in fear and have been fired at many times. Don't expect your opponent to wet his pants just because you unstrap your Roscoe.