Any biology gurus in the house? Homework question... need some help.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

My fiance is taking a Bio class in college right now. She has the following question on her homework assignment, and she's struggling to answer it. She isn't big on the Star Trek movies (never even watched them), and while I've seen them all I'm not all that huge of a fan... and can't wrap my head around the question anyway. So figured I'd give the collective minds here at TGO (God help her) a shot at answering this.

Question: In a classic episode of Star Trek, a gigantic cell engulfs an entire starship. Spock blows the cell to bits, before it reproduces and eats the universe. Think of at least one problem a biologist would have with this scenario.

While I'm sure there can be quite a few comedic answers to this, let's try to at least keep it serious. Think this round of questions and answers is due this evening, when she submits them to her online class professor.

Thanks!

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

If it was an Aerospace question, I'd already have it answered... Biology... Not so much...

Sorry, man.. .Good luck though, someone on here is bound to know...

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Yeah... I've forgotten everything I knew about Biology, having taken that college course back in '99-'00. Once I fulfilled my science courses, I moved on. Not one of the areas I'm really interested in academically.

[Il Duce]

by blowing it to bits he created an infinite numbers of cells. think of it as a rushed cytokinesis.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

by blowing it to bits he created an infinite numbers of cells. think of it as a rushed cytokinesis.

Why is that a problem?

[Il Duce]

sorry i meant to say mitosis. cytokinesis is what happens next. the problem is he took 1 rogue cell and just made an infinite number of them. Mitosis the process by which a eukaryotic cell separates the chromosomes in its cell nucleus into two identical sets in two nuclei.[1] It is generally followed immediately by cytokinesis, which divides the nuclei, cytoplasm, organelles and cell membrane into two cells containing roughly equal shares of these cellular components. Mitosis and cytokinesis together define the mitotic (M) phase of the cell cycle - the division of the mother cell into two daughter cells, genetically identical to each other and to their parent cell. This accounts for approximately 10% of the cell cycle.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

<--- Smiling, nodding, and just going to accept that answer.

Thanks!

[Il Duce]

you may wanna doublecheck though but i believe that is right

[Guest bkelm18]

In layman's, he just accelerated the process of reproduction and "consumption of the universe".

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I passed the answer along to her, giving TGO (and you, specifically) credit for the answer. She was at a loss over how to even begin to answer that, and basically stared at it and the book for the past 2 days. She said the following: "Wow, awesome answer. Thank you!". I'm sure she'll take it and double check it with her text reading, as she likes to understand the answer herself and make the connections.

Again, really appreciate the help.

[Il Duce]

HAHA no problem. Biology was one of my favorite subjects in school.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I don't think it is a given that blowing up the cell would cause it to reproduce. When the immune system or viruses 'blow up' cells in our bodies, the cells don't reproduce. They are dead.

The question surely has many wrong answers, but there are so many possible right answers that ought to do. Just depends on what the teacher is looking for.

Depends on how many assumptions you are willing to make.

If you assume this is an earth-type life in the giant cell, the first problem is that it would die in the vacuum and radiation of space. Because earth-type life is all we know at this time, we can't assume some other kind of metabolism could survive in open space, though it is possible of course.

If you assume that it has some kind of metabolism which would work in outer space, the next issue might be size. Volume/mass increases at the cube to surface area, if I recall. Therefore, if the cell has much metabolism at all, the heat of the metabolism in such a giant cell would not radiate properly from the relatively-small surface area, and the innards would cook in short order. You could get around this problem by postulating that this fancy alien metabolism can operate at incredibly high temperatures. Or by assuming that the cell has heat convection processes which can efficiently deliver excess heat of metabolism to the cell exterior. Once you postulate that there is a metabolism which works in space, then any other fancy features of the metabolism could be imagined to "make it work".

You would just have to assume that it is even dna/rna based with mitochondria and such. It might be easier to design a space cell based on non-organic nanotech of some kind. Life is basically organic-chemistry nanotech, but organic chemistry doesn't work in a very wide temperature zone, though it works in a pretty wide environmental zone including deep in the hot earth and in glaciers. But metallic nanotech operations cell MAY have wider environmental tolerances. We don't know fer sure because nobody has built any such machines YET as far as is publicly known anyway.

Edit: More specifically on volume versus surface area-- Assume the cell is basically spherical.

VolumeSphere = (4 / 3) * pi * radius^3

SurfaceAreaSphere = 4 * pi * radius^2

So the SurfaceArea per Volume would be (3 / r)

Therefore, if the radius of the cell is 1 inch, the ratio of SurfaceArea vs Volume would be 3.

If you double the radius of the cell to 2 inch, the ratio would go down to 1.5

If you double the radius again to 4 inch, the ratio would go down to 0.75

If you keep on increasing the size of the cell, after awhile the SurfaceArea vs Volume ratio gets miniscule.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Lester Weevils

[Guest bkelm18]

I don't think it is a given that blowing up the cell would cause it to reproduce. When the immune system or viruses 'blow up' cells in our bodies, the cells don't reproduce. They are dead.

The question surely has many wrong answers, but there are so many possible right answers that ought to do. Just depends on what the teacher is looking for.

Depends on how many assumptions you are willing to make.

If you assume this is an earth-type life in the giant cell, the first problem is that it would die in the vacuum and radiation of space. Because earth-type life is all we know at this time, we can't assume some other kind of metabolism could survive in open space, though it is possible of course.

If you assume that it has some kind of metabolism which would work in outer space, the next issue might be size. Volume/mass increases at the cube to surface area, if I recall. Therefore, if the cell has much metabolism at all, the heat of the metabolism in such a giant cell would not radiate properly from the relatively-small surface area, and the innards would cook in short order. You could get around this problem by postulating that this fancy alien metabolism can operate at incredibly high temperatures. Or by assuming that the cell has heat convection processes which can efficiently deliver excess heat of metabolism to the cell exterior. Once you postulate that there is a metabolism which works in space, then any other fancy features of the metabolism could be imagined to "make it work".

You would just have to assume that it is even dna/rna based with mitochondria and such. It might be easier to design a space cell based on non-organic nanotech of some kind. Life is basically organic-chemistry nanotech, but organic chemistry doesn't work in a very wide temperature zone, though it works in a pretty wide environmental zone including deep in the hot earth and in glaciers. But metallic nanotech operations cell MAY have wider environmental tolerances. We don't know fer sure because nobody has built any such machines YET as far as is publicly known anyway.

Judging by the nature of the question, I'm guessing a very simplistic answer is the route the teacher is going.

[Mechanic_X]

Or is it a moral/ethical answer the teacher wants. Last of its kind dilemma.

[Guest mustangdave]

It's pretty SAD when a BIOLOGY "professor" has to use a STAR TREK analogy...to friggin TEACH...I'm amazed that the current crop of students even knows what no less who STAR TREK is....geez...my morning GRUMP is done.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Climate change. She'll get an A.

[TGO David]

Space herpes.

[Guest tenman]

1st thing that crossed my mind (and was mentioned above) was how does a biological type organism exist in the vacuum of space?

[BigK]

The cell nucleus must split to reproduce. An explosion doesn't allow the nucleus to replicate. So, I don't believe that would cause more cells to form.

I'd agree with the cell imploding in a vacuum or lack of oxygen to survive or the cold temp being the issue.

[StPatrick]

If you assume that it has some kind of metabolism which would work in outer space, the next issue might be size. Volume/mass increases at the cube to surface area, if I recall. Therefore, if the cell has much metabolism at all, the heat of the metabolism in such a giant cell would not radiate properly from the relatively-small surface area, and the innards would cook in short order. You could get around this problem by postulating that this fancy alien metabolism can operate at incredibly high temperatures. Or by assuming that the cell has heat convection processes which can efficiently deliver excess heat of metabolism to the cell exterior. Once you postulate that there is a metabolism which works in space, then any other fancy features of the metabolism could be imagined to "make it work".

This, with the understanding that cells are the size we find them due to the constraints of volume v. surface area. A cell, prokaryote or eukaryote, is incapable of distributing nutrients by anything other than diffusion via concentration gradient. Therefore, an enormous cell, under any conditions, would be incapable of distributing or using the nutrients required for cellular respiration at a more than optimal volume to surface area ratio. Since observation has not provided an example of such a cell, it seems likely to conclude that such a cell could not survive in any environment, much less that of deep space.

Adding deep space to the considerations, you run into multiple issues. Water is required for cellular respiration, but would only exist in a frozen state. Not only could it not move within the cell, the ice crystals that formed would rupture the cell wall and effectively kill the cell. Finding a way to solve this issue, by means of high glucose or salt concentration within the intracellular fluid, you then have to ask: how does this cell move in zero gravity, and how efficiently can it diffuse any nutrients it encounters as temperatures approach absolute zero? Finally, if the cell resembles earth-based life, how do the enzymes responsible facilitating basic chemical functions operate at temperatures where intermolecular chemistry simply does not occur? You could say that the cell operates using nuclear chemistry, but how would a carbon-based cell sustain the temperatures and pressures of nuclear fusion / fission without becoming ash? In space, the only chemistry happening on any kind of regular scale occurs in stars, not organisms.

[Il Duce]

Also have to keep in mind this is star trek lol

Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk

[SavageSig]

The answer is definitely surface area to volume ratio. There's a reason you don't see cells the size of bowling balls.

[Reservoir Dog]

Space herpes.

I love Ice Pirates!

[Guest Verbal Kint]

1st thing that crossed my mind (and was mentioned above) was how does a biological type organism exist in the vacuum of space?

Pretty sure she said she presented 2-3 different theories, this being one of them.

Don't think space herpes made the list this time around. lol

[TGO David]

I love Ice Pirates!

It's a great movie that just doesn't get much attention.