ASP baton legality

[Ebow1]

I got a buddy who's looking into an ASP baton for personal carry. I need to know the legality of this for a civilian, as I was pretty sure he had to go through some kind of certification course.

[Guest 10mm4me]

Yes, you must pass a certified training course in order to legally have a baton in your possession. Even then, I'm not sure it can be concealed and it is really just asking for trouble if you have to use it. Many of the baton strikes are classified as deadly force and you are really better off just using a handgun to neutralize a threat.

[Guest davidz71]

While you should be certified in case the person sues you, there are numerous baton strikes using the Pressure Point Control Tactics System that target major and minor muscle group motor points which cause motor dysfunction (charlie horse). If that is not successful then you escalate to joints/bones and then eventually to head, neck, throat or collarbone. If faced with a person with a weapon or other device which could cause death, you can go straight to the head, neck, throat or collarbone. Obviously, you don't carry a baton to a knife or gun fight so in the end you are better off with a firearm. We had a case years ago in Tullahoma where a baseball bat won over a machete carrying assailant. Both were at a local bar and had been drinking heavily.

[Oh Shoot]

While you should be certified in case the person sues you,....

Handy to prevent being arrested for unlawful carrying of a weapon, first of all.

I fail to see how certification makes you less liable for injury, however.

- OS

[Punisher84]

There was a long thread about this back in the day that caused some civil unrest and Fallguy actually managed to get the AG to issue his opinion on it. While yes you can get certified to carry one and yes instructors on here will train you, the AG stated that the certification was not the same as having a handgun permit and that the certification was simply a defense to carrying the baton and not an actual license to do so.

Now, for my personal opinion, I carry an ASP every night at work and I have used it ONCE in 3 years. Most of my buddies in security and on PD rarely use theirs. It's a handy tool, but it also takes more than a 4 hour training course to use proficiently. IMHO if you want something for self-defense you're better off carrying either mace or a gun. Don't middle ground it. Carrying a baton around is just asking for a lawsuit and criminal charges to me.

[Oh Shoot]

... the AG stated that the certification was not the same as having a handgun permit and that the certification was simply a defense to carrying the baton and not an actual license to do so...

Our wacky lovable AG.

The HCP is simply a defense to unlawful carrying of a weapon, too.

Handgun and the club/baton defense are both in the same section, appropriately titled: 39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

- OS

[Guest RichieRich]

Yes, you must pass a certified training course in order to legally have a baton in your possession. Even then, I'm not sure it can be concealed and it is really just asking for trouble if you have to use it. Many of the baton strikes are classified as deadly force and you are really better off just using a handgun to neutralize a threat.

I've actually thought about getting a baton--not for protection against malicious homo sapiens, but for protection against malice of the canine variety. We have a good number of big dogs in our neighborhood that are allowed to run wild--contrary to leash laws in the municipality--that our police department claims they can do nothing unless they see an attack in progress. Big sticks have a deterrent value for many dogs, but are a bit unwieldy to carry around (the wife and I go for evening walks frequently). A baton would be a nice way to carry a small stick that instantly gets bigger, and if the dog doesn't take heed, probably a bit more politically correct than shooting an attacking beast. Whether the dog had previously attacked a couple neighbors before, I'm afraid, will not be the legacy in such a case--it will be "there's the guy who shoots the neighbors pets."

Right now, I've come close to using pepper spray twice on big dogs. Has anyone had experience with as potential protection against?

[Guest RichieRich]

Sorry for the typo. The question was "Has anyone had experience with a baton as potential protection against malicious dogs?"

[Punisher84]

Our wacky lovable AG.

The HCP is simply a defense to unlawful carrying of a weapon, too.

Handgun and the club/baton defense are both in the same section, appropriately titled: 39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

- OS

Yes, but one is a state issued license while the other is a card/certificate signed by a trainer. I get your point, but my point has always been that some cops, lawyers, and apparently even the AG do not view it as the same.

I carry mine to and from work and at work. I could care less about carrying it around anywhere else. I'm using either my fists or my gun. I'm not stopping at a 21" stick on my way up the force continuum unless I'm on duty.

Anyway I don't want to re-open the old debate, just wanted to let Ebow know there is a difference of opinion in the legal world about them.

[Oh Shoot]

...

Anyway I don't want to re-open the old debate, just wanted to let Ebow know there is a difference of opinion in the legal world about them.

I've considered getting the baton training, as I'd like to be able to carry a pocket sap.

Of course, it's absurd that baton training has anything to do with using a sap, but seems to cover all "clubs", and a sap is a club.

- OS

[Punisher84]

I've considered getting the baton training, as I'd like to be able to carry a pocket sap.

Of course, it's absurd that baton training has anything to do with using a sap, but seems to cover all "clubs", and a sap is a club.

- OS

Even though I wouldn't carry any type of club off duty, I do sometimes wish we just a Weapons Carry Permit like a few other states. I think KY covers batons, handguns, etc all in one bundle.

[Pain103]

Richie I recommend getting some good OC Spray for dogs. It won't cause any permanent damage but boy it will make them run and scream like crazy. I've had to use it on some landsharks myself. Even if you miss them usually the strong smell and it flying towards them is enough to scare them. I carry Freeze +p so I can testify to it. As far as a baton man those things are just there for looks. I have never once struck anyone with mine in 8 years. It's main purpose is to break windows and pick up stuff that rolls underneath the car. lol

[Curiousgb]

Richie I recommend getting some good OC Spray for dogs. It won't cause any permanent damage but boy it will make them run and scream like crazy. I've had to use it on some landsharks myself. Even if you miss them usually the strong smell and it flying towards them is enough to scare them. I carry Freeze +p so I can testify to it. As far as a baton man those things are just there for looks. I have never once struck anyone with mine in 8 years. It's main purpose is to break windows and pick up stuff that rolls underneath the car. lol

I got a can of Bear Spray. It shoots about 30 feet and really does a # on dogs.

[Guest RichieRich]

Thanks guys. I've been carrying OC 17% spray, so sounds like I'm probably in good shape. I appreciate you sharing the experience. My fear is that I spray, and just get dog even more angry, and was hoping for something less neighborhood disruptive than the hollow points in my LCR.

[Guest Pig957]

Wow, as a former LEO, I carry a asp in my vehicle. I never gave a thought about needing any sort of

" Weapons Carry Permit" while traveling. IN does not require such.

[Oh Shoot]

Wow, as a former LEO, I carry a asp in my vehicle. I never gave a thought about needing any sort of

" Weapons Carry Permit" while traveling. IN does not require such.

Yeah, letter of the law, unlawful carry of a club or knife over 4" is same penalty as for a gun.

- OS

[Guest bowfish12]

Thanks guys. I've been carrying OC 17% spray, so sounds like I'm probably in good shape. I appreciate you sharing the experience. My fear is that I spray, and just get dog even more angry, and was hoping for something less neighborhood disruptive than the hollow points in my LCR.

I use to read electric meters, and the spray works really good on just about any dog. It does piss them off and they will remember it. From then on most will not be a problem but there are a few where it will make the situation worse. It really just depends on the dog. If you have to spray one make sure you keep spraying until the dog finally backs down and leaves. A stick or baton will work some for having something in between you and the dog. We were allowed to carry a "dog stick" and it helped to keep the little ones away without spraying them. The only time I actually had to swing in self defense on a dog it was of little use except keeping me from getting my ass eaten up.

I always hated having to spray someone's dog, but if it was running loose, broke off a chain, or they just didn't give a **** about their pet what can you do?

[Guest RichieRich]

I use to read electric meters, and the spray works really good on just about any dog. It does piss them off and they will remember it. From then on most will not be a problem but there are a few where it will make the situation worse. It really just depends on the dog. If you have to spray one make sure you keep spraying until the dog finally backs down and leaves. A stick or baton will work some for having something in between you and the dog. We were allowed to carry a "dog stick" and it helped to keep the little ones away without spraying them. The only time I actually had to swing in self defense on a dog it was of little use except keeping me from getting my ass eaten up.

I always hated having to spray someone's dog, but if it was running loose, broke off a chain, or they just didn't give a **** about their pet what can you do?

Great "been there, done that" advice. Thanks.

[kb4ns]

As far as a baton man those things are just there for looks. I have never once struck anyone with mine in 8 years. It's main purpose is to break windows and pick up stuff that rolls underneath the car. lol

This.

[Punisher84]

As far as a baton man those things are just there for looks. I have never once struck anyone with mine in 8 years. It's main purpose is to break windows and pick up stuff that rolls underneath the car. lol

I use mine to prop open doors sometimes lol

[Guest WGDII]

Here's the skinny on batons, ASP or otherwise. In TN, to legally carry an impact weapon i.e. baton, slap jack, etc..., one must have had training from a certified instructor. The user must carry a card to that effect with him when he is carrying said impact weapon. The handgun carry permit does not suffice nor does the baton training cover the handgun.

As to the usefulness of the baton, that is a fairly subjective thing. The baton has a fairly narrow usage window, but is a good thing to have in your self defense tool box. Combined with O.C., it is a viable option for those that can't or won't carry a firearm.

Will Dougan, certified ASP instructor #30633

[Ebow1]

Cool. I'm gonna tell my buddy to just stick to his handgun since he's already got the permit, but if he really wants to do the ASP thing, where's a good place in the Bellevue, West Nashville area for him to take a class?

[Guest 270win]

Get you a good Maglite if you want something like a club. It is a lot heavier than the ASP baton. I keep a 3 D cell mag lite under the seat of my car. I use mine for a flashlight, but know if I had to bust glass out of a car to help someone, the maglite is tough enough to do the job. Some of the old timer cops used them as improvised night sticks with good effect if that means anything to you. It is a lot to carry but I'm sure it will do the job on a mean dog when he gets wacked with it. There are some real long Maglites. The nice thing is they are not weapons.

[Guest Ggun]

Get you a good Maglite if you want something like a club. It is a lot heavier than the ASP baton. I keep a 3 D cell mag lite under the seat of my car. I use mine for a flashlight, but know if I had to bust glass out of a car to help someone, the maglite is tough enough to do the job. Some of the old timer cops used them as improvised night sticks with good effect if that means anything to you. It is a lot to carry but I'm sure it will do the job on a mean dog when he gets wacked with it. There are some real long Maglites. The nice thing is they are not weapons.

I venture to say that one of those long mag lights could legally be considered a weapon in certain situations.

[Punisher84]

I venture to say that one of those long mag lights could legally be considered a weapon in certain situations.

Only if you used it as such. I definitely could see an aggravated assault charge if you whacked someone with it without cause.