Handgun Carry Permit for use as an ID

[I_Like_Pie]

I worked Riverbend at the beer tent this year. We accepted a HCP for ID but I was a bit saddened by all the drunken idiots showing them off. Fine example of responsible ownership guys....Stay classy

[Guest KimberChick]

I keep my IDs, credit card and everything in a single card sleeve so I can ditch my purse and carry light sometimes. I've used my HCP when I couldn't immediately find my DL in there and never had an issue. I had to do it when we checked into the hotel in Beaufort SC this past weekend and she didn't bat an eye. Whichever one I get to first gets used because I don't wanna be that chick holding up the checkout lane whilst fumbling around for my DL.

[Mike.357]

I keep my IDs, credit card and everything in a single card sleeve so I can ditch my purse and carry light sometimes. QUOTE]

i read this without seeing the author, thought it was Glock23 at first.

[vontar]

Well to Sound like the Broken Record that I am sometimes, as I pointed out, it is legal ID and if they decline it they are wrong.

I do not know what trouble they can get into for not accepting a valid ID but I am sure they can get in some kind of trouble. I have TV in the next few minutes if no one cares to look it up before TV is over and if I have time I will try to search for it later.

[vontar]

I have not found out if they can get in trouble but I am firing off a couple emails

To whom it may concern.

I have been looking over your website at, Tobacco Guidelines | TFCA - Tennessee Fuel & Convenience Store Association. I see the acceptable forms of ID for Tobacco. I want to see if there is a similar posting for alcohol. The reason I am asking, I have been hearing about some places declining alcohol sales to people because they don't agree with the form of ID presented. It seems they may not be familiar with all forms of acceptable ID.

Looking over the list,

Acceptable forms of identification include the person's Drivers License, Tennessee I.D. License, Tennessee Hand Gun Permit, Military I.D. Card, U.S. passport and U.S. Immigration Card. However I have been hearing that people have been turned down trying to use Tennessee Hand Gun Permit for alcohol purchases.

I assume acceptable ID for alcohol would be the same as for tobacco but I would like to confirm. Please reply with any information you could share in this matter.

I am wondering, if a store declines someone with valid ID, is there any recourse a person might have?

I sent my email to

I know they are mainly listing about tobacco, but they have some alcohol info on the site.

Beer Posting Downloadable Sign | TFCA - Tennessee Fuel & Convenience Store Association

The email addres i used is tfca@tfca.info

I will post back if they reply to me.

[kb4ns]

Well to Sound like the Broken Record that I am sometimes, as I pointed out, it is legal ID and if they decline it they are wrong.

I do not know what trouble they can get into for not accepting a valid ID but I am sure they can get in some kind of trouble. I have TV in the next few minutes if no one cares to look it up before TV is over and if I have time I will try to search for it later.

I doubt anyone is going to make a store sell anything if they don't want to. Regardless of their reason for refusing to sell it.

[vontar]

kb4ns, you right there. It is like when you get 2 dollar bills at the bank and try to spend them. (try it) half the people ask for a manger because they have never seen them before.

I love getting 2 dollar bills, I like to use them in my tips when I go out. However I don't have any right now. I have gave them all away.

[Mike.357]

a business can accept any ID they so choose. All they cannot do it refuse my ID and then accept the same thing from the next guy. They can not discriminate. Other than that they can tell me to pound sand.

[I_Like_Pie]

I do not know what trouble they can get into for not accepting a valid ID but I am sure they can get in some kind of trouble.

Nope....that is not how the law works. 100% legal to deny them. If I didn't want to serve someone because I thought they were ugly....that is 100% legal.

Don't believe me.....ask any bartender or server who is a member here.

One exception is the disabilities act or equal opportunity laws...religion, color, creed, etc. Asie from that there is 100% discretion of the person as the gatekeeper.

Edited September 4, 2010 by I_Like_Pie

[Guest mahahn]

Other than that they can tell me to pound sand.

I bet that happens on a daily basis!

[vontar]

I just talked to a good friend that usually in the know on such things. She pretty much told me it up to the business to decide which forms of ID they will accept from the lists I posted on page. She told me they can discriminate against some forms of ID. I feel that is wrong, however it is there right not to accept our money in this bad economy as well.

I hope comes outright sending from my phone.

[kb4ns]

I hope comes outright sending from my phone.

As usual, your grammar is abhorrent. However, the post did come through just fine.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Nope....that is not how the law works. 100% legal to deny them. If I didn't want to serve someone because I thought they were ugly....that is 100% legal.

Don't believe me.....ask any bartender or server who is a member here.

One exception is the disabilities act or equal opportunity laws...religion, color, creed, etc. Asie from that there is 100% discretion of the person as the gatekeeper.

Ugly is a disability, though, right? I wouldn't know...

As usual, your grammar is abhorrent. However, the post did come through just fine.

I'm sure your sarcasm is going back full force as well...

[vontar]

As usual, your grammar is abhorrent. However, the post did come through just fine.

THat is code. If the grammar is correct you will know I have been kidnapped and you had better round of a search party. Bring Beer.

[wstrnrdr]

I have worked concessions at Titan's games 15 or 16 times in the last 4 years for our high school ROTC program. A Tips training course.

think it lasted 3-4 hours is required to work and serve beer. DL from the state, passport for foreign persons, and military ID where the

only ID's Tn accepted. Worked shows for Country week and had problems with foreign persons, Britsh etc who didn't carry passports

to the stadium. The state actually has people testing for infractions at every event. Saw 2 people taken out in handcuffs and charged

for serving to underage. They were supposedly within a month of being legal. You are taught to have ID removed and verify legal

age. Got pretty good at reading birth dates quickly. So apparently Tn only accepts these ID's or Centerplate, the concessions owners

and operators interpret Tn regs this way.

[vontar]

That might just be the IDs they choose to accept.

[vontar]

I may have found something I don't like

However this is NOT a .GOV site. Take with grain of salt and it would need to be verified.

Tennessee Bartender Certification for serving alcohol in Tennessee

Acceptable Forms of ID: Acceptable Forms of ID:

• An valid driver's license containing a picture, and date of birth, issued by any state or United States Territory.
  
• A state issued ID
  
• Military identification card
  
• Valid Passport
  

I guess HCP would fall under A State Issued ID

*********

Then I found a PDF on the ABC site

with this

http://www.state.tn.us/abc/TABC%20Rules%20and%20Regulation%2006-23-2010.pdf

in

0100-09-.01 DEFINITIONS.

Valid Identification. Valid identification means government issued identification that includes

photograph and that has not expired. Such identification includes drivers licenses, military

identification, passports and permanent resident cards.

RULES FOR PROFESSIONAL ALCOHOL SERVER TRAINING CHAPTER 0100-08

(Rule 0100-08-.04, continued)

section c

6. A review of appropriate identification including acceptable driver’s licenses,

military identification, passports, and other identification cards.

It does not directly say the Hand Gun Permit. It gives examples which the HCP seems to fit.

Government issued identification that includes photograph and that has not expired.

********

I feel I have to explain why I jumped on this topix so freaking hard.

At work, i am a trouble shoot computer problems. When I get a problem in my head, it eats at me until I solve it or get an answer.

I just could not let this go. It happend to be on a long weekend where I could not pick up a phone and call anyone so I used the internet and researched.

Edited September 5, 2010 by vontar

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

I think the bottom line here is: All the above is CORRECT but the business owner isn't bound by anything to accept any kind of ID. They can accept and or decline whatever type of ID they want.

[Fallguy]

I think the bottom line here is: All the above is CORRECT but the business owner isn't bound by anything to accept any kind of ID. They can accept and or decline whatever type of ID they want.

I think that about sums it up.

A HCP is a vaild form of ID but no business is required to accept it.

[vontar]

I think that about sums it up.

A HCP is a vaild form of ID but no business is required to accept it.

That is what my research has lead me to. However It can not be said I did not Beat the dead horse.

However I want to go back to my orignal plan of planning to be grey and not displaying to everyone and showing off. I intend to only use my DL for Beer.

Remember you can't carry and drink at the same time, wait you can't drink and drive either had to get one last jab in.

[Hadley22]

Thanks for the replies. I have been told that it is up to the "store" to decide what to accept. A HCP should be accepted in my opinion. I will not visit this stand again. I guess my real issue that mad me mad was he said" this is not a valid ID" when he should have said " my sorry a$$ company will not allow me to accept a HCP as ID" I had less of an issue buying beer when i had a fake id in college.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

I had less of an issue buying beer when i had a fake id in college.

I've caught more flak here lately about taking my ID out of my wallet, which is in a clear sleeve, than I did whenever I was buying booze at 19...

It's crazy.

[vontar]

I got a reply email.

Just editing out names.

Hight lighting some Key points.

Found one mistake the person thought a HCP required the person to have a Driver license, but since that is not this person's area I am not going to bust chops.

Dear Mr. *******:

Tennessee has very strict beer carding/sales laws for carry out beer

sales. As a result of this, Tennessee has one of lowest rates of teen

drinking/minor beer violations in the US. A record that our industry

is very proud of.

Tennessee law for ID carry out beer purchases is as follows: "the adult

consumer must present to the permit holder or any employee thereof a

valid, government-issued document, such as driver's license, or other

from of identification deemed acceptable to the permit holder, which

includes the photograph and birth date of the adult consumer attempting

to make such purchase of beer." Violation of this law can result in a

$250 fine and a class C misdemeanor (which can include jail time) for

the clerk, and up to $5,000 fine and suspension or revocation of license

for the permit holder.

Given this level of penalty -- carding is something that clerks and beer

permit holders take very seriously. I'm sure that it won't surprise you

to know that there are a lot of fake ID floating around out there. A

clerk has the option of refusing a sale for any form of ID that does not

appear valid. A clerk may also refuse the sale if there are concerns

regarding the sobriety of the customer, or if he suspects the purchase

is being made for a minor.

A Tennessee Hand Gun Permit does meet the definition of acceptable ID as

defined by law. However, Tennessee law does give the clerk and permit

holder the option "identification deemed acceptable." I don't

specifically know of hand gun permits, or passports or military ID s

being rejected as acceptable proof of age for beer sales, however it is

possible that many clerks out there may not have ever seen a Tennessee

Hand Gun Permit, or many forms of foreign passports. It is therefore

their right to err on the side of caution and refuse to make a sale when

they are unsure about the form of identification.

Given that a Tennessee Hand Gun Permit does require a Tennessee driver's

license, if a handgun permit holder ID is rejected for a beer purchase,

that person will have a Tennessee driver's license as a form of ID and

will be able to make a beer purchase.

If the carding policies and procedures of your local vendor are not

acceptable to you, as a recourse, consumers may take their business

elsewhere to a location that does suit your ID needs.

Also -- your email references "alcohol" which in Tennessee law

references liquor and wine sales. Beer sales are regulated under a

different set of laws and by a different agency.

The information that I've given you above is for the sale of carry out

beer purchases only. The industry I represent, convenience stores, only

make carry out beer purchases. I do not have the regulatory information

or general operating practices of retail liquor stores or beer or

alcohol on premise consumption.

***** *******, **********

Tennessee Fuel and Convenience Store Association

P. O. Box 101334

Nashville, TN 37224

(615) 242-4377

FAX (615) 254-8117

Cell (615) 260-1183

www.tfca.info

***********

Dead Horse throughly beaten.

[Fallguy]

Well if that doesn't fully answer the orginal question I don't think anything will....

[kb4ns]

Given that a Tennessee Hand Gun Permit does require a Tennessee driver's

license, if a handgun permit holder ID is rejected for a beer purchase,

that person will have a Tennessee driver's license as a form of ID and

will be able to make a beer purchase.

I didn't know you had to have a driver's license to get a HCP. Is a class D license required, or is a class M alone good enough?

/sarcasm