9mm in 147 grain subsonic

[Dolomite_supafly]

I know the reason why, which is to get the heaviest bullet you can yet keep that bullet subsonic for suppressor use.

But why not make ammunition using the same bullet but with more velocity and subsequently more energy?

I happened upon a recipe using Vihtavouri powder that pushes a 147 grain bullet to 1200+ fps out of a pistol (6.9 grains of 3N38). I loaded some ammo using the 147 grain Gold Dot to try out. I have fired a lot of this load out of a Glock as well as a rifle and never seen any pressure issues at all, not even any "smileys" with the Glock. It definitely has abit more of a kick to it.

9mm Load Data

I would love to use this for self defense but I don't want the stigma of using handloads in a self defense situation because of all the legal ramifications.

This might also help with intregrally suppressed guns like the MP5. If you fire subsonic ammunition out of a MP5, which is designed to keep supersonic ammo below the speed of sound, you wind up with a projectile that is well below the speed of sound.

I read a post a while back in which a guy was hit in the forehead with a 147 grain bullet fired from a MP5 but the bullet never entered the skull. They determined it was because the already subsonic rounds were fired from the integrally supressed MP5 reducing the velocity even more. The bullet was so slow that it didn't have enough energy to enter the skull. It knocked the guy out but he later made a full recovery.

Dolomite

[Farman]

Dolomite, Would shooting a heavier bullet subsonic reduce recoil?

[Guest drv2fst]

Why would an integrally suppressed gun slow down the bullet any more than a screw on suppressor?

I have a few of the screw on type and was planning to buy some guns of the integrally suppressed type.

[molonlabetn]

Double-Tap loads some pretty hot 147gr loads for 9mm... that's what I chose to carry for the following reason. Gold-Dot 147gr penetrates more reliably through more materials... it may not expand as much as 124gr or deposit as much energy as 115gr, but it will consistently do both very well deeper inside the target than either of the former.

...and as far as recoil goes, that is proportionate to the momentum of the projectile, not the energy. So heavier bullets (even going slower) often produce more force against the gun and shooter. The reason why they feel softer is because the impulse occurs over a longer time period, allowing the elastic action (spring) in a semi-auto to absorb it more efficiently... and also the psychological effect of the reduced noise (louder guns seem harder to handle, even when they are not)

[molonlabetn]

Why would an integrally suppressed gun slow down the bullet any more than a screw on suppressor?

I have a few of the screw on type and was planning to buy some guns of the integrally suppressed type.

Integral suppressed barrels begin bleeding off pressure after the bullet has moved a very short distance... increasing the volume behind the bullet and reducing the velocity of propellant expansion. Screw on suppressors don't change the existing barrel length, they merely capture the expanding propellant after it has done its work on the bullet.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Double-Tap loads some pretty hot 147gr loads for 9mm... that's what I chose to carry for the following reason.

Thanks for the info. I too will be buying a bunch of these for my carry guns. It is as close to my own loads as I can get.

Dolomite

[dats82]

Seems like the only reason this would be a bad idea is that you would have to be pushing a much higher pressure to achieve the high velocity with the heavier bullet. I am really not up too much on all the reloading and ammunition stuff, but it seems that to achieve this you would have to be using a gun rated for +p as well as a fairly lengthy barrel. Not like rifle long, but at least a full size pistol.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The recipe I posted above, 147 @ 1200+fps using 3N38, is not a +P load. Most loads today are watered down compared to 20-30 years ago. We can blame our litigious society for that. I was shooting some factory loads the other day and they were very underpowered, so much so I was able to see the bullets reflect the sun in flight. Now that does happen with other calibers, 45ACP, but never 9mm.

I would be willing to bet if you compared load data between a old manual that is 20+ years old to a modern one you will see what I am talking about.

Dolomite

[deerslayer]

I was able to see the bullets reflect the sun in flight. Now that does happen with other calibers, 45ACP, but never 9mm.

Dolomite

I have observed 9mms numerous times.

[TN-popo]

Georgia Arms also offers a factory 147gr+P Gold Dot load.

http://georgia-arms.com/9mmluger-4.aspx

According to one of their factory reps...

147+P loaded to 36,700 PSI

124+P loaded to 36,500 PSI

I shot them side x side and the 124+P version had more recoil.

I was happy with both rounds.

Just for reference, SAAMI specs...

9mm = 35,000 PSI max

9mm+P = 38,500 PSI max

9mm+P+ = anything over 38,500 PSI

Edited September 7, 2010 by TN-popo