How many unarmed people must be attacking you before you can shoot? (Iowa thugs)

[Guest SUNTZU]

Like Regan said "Trust, but verify." If negotiations break down I don't want to be unarmed.

Your sarcasm meter is broken. Might try tapping on it.

Crowd: Hey whitey

Suntzu: You talkin' to me?

Crowd: Yeah, you

Suntzu: bang bang bang

Nothing wrong with a little conversation

"A little less conversation...a little more action..." - Elvis

[vontar]

1 as long as I am in fear of my life.

With out reading the news story or the entire thread I am in complete agreement with this answer.

I am not going to be excuse me, do you have any weapons. If I fear for my life, at that point I am not going to concern my self with what he/she brought to the fight. I just hope I brought a gun to the fight.

Now I am going back to read.

[vontar]

Regardless of the number if they are unarmed I pull my weapon. If they continue I incapacitate 1 to make an example. If they continue I have no problem using whatever amount of force preserves my life. If it is just 1 person unarmed, whatever amount of force it takes to keep him at bay. Last thing I want is to be in a situation where they get my gun and shoot me.

If possible, like when it was cowboys and indians, take out one with the most feathers to take the fight out fo the crowd. If possible take out the leader of the gang.

[JayC]

Well I hope you guys like jail time, because if you shoot a couple unarmed teenagers, that's where you will be.

It was more of a rhetorical question.

Maybe in Iowa, but here in TN, two or more attackers who attack you unprovoked... That is going to be seen as justifiable... doesn't matter if they are 15 or 25...

Remember, it's a reasonable fear they might cause you serious bodily injury or death... 2 15 year olds attacking you almost always crosses the line into a reasonable fear.

Edited August 27, 2010 by JayC

[JayC]

Just remember the law in TN now does not require you to walk away or flee if you're there legally and not committing a crime.

Why it's always best to avoid an attack, we're not obligated to try to in TN anymore.

Wow...you apperantly have no clue.

Do you know for a fact whether or not this group of people (or just one person) has had any military or fight trainning?? Doubt it. If someone makes an intentional advance you can run/walk instead of holding your ground. This is and has been common practice as no one really wants to have to shoot anyone. Walking away is always recomended. IF and when you can't and you HAVE to stand your ground, the intentions of the person is what you have to determine on your own. If you determine the intentions are to harm or kill, you have every right to defend yourself no matter how many people there are.

There have been a few posts by TGO members who have been in a similar situation. The have stated that by just mearly drawing thier weapon the advancement by the "bad guy(s)" was halted and the TGO member was able to "get away" to saftey and contact the proper athorities.

There are always other options but if you make the decision to use your weapon, just because the "bad guy" is unarmed DOES NOT mean he can't kill you. Remember, dead is dead and we all want to make it out alive.

[Fallguy]

Was tempted to close this thread after I saw the OP apparnetly was just trying to stir something up, but I think for now it is a pretty good discussion.

To go ahead and answer the rhetorical question.....there is no set number of attackers before deadly force may be justified. As long as you (and possibly 12 of your peers reasonably fear imminent death or serious bodily harm. So as with most of these type scenario questions, it depends on the facts/circumstances of each individual situation.

[farrar]

Apparently I'm not carrying enough ammo

[G27]

Your sarcasm meter is broken. Might try tapping on it.

sar·chasm ('sär-"ka-z&m) : The giant gulf (chasm) between what is said and the person who doesn't get it.

[Dad03]

Well if its "beat whitey night" then 2 or more.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Dad03

[lock n' load]

Here is a link to a video by Massad Ayoob on deadly force. It is an older video, but I think he has some good info on the subject. There are 4 parts to this series and I believe it is part 2 where he refers to disparity of force vs unarmed attackers. He also references the legal book "Warren on Homicde" FWIW. Don't know if this may help, but I thought it was interesting. Mr. Ayoob is a well-respected author, shooter and police officer. He also runs the Lethal Force institute which deals with firearms training I believe.

http://www.youtube.http://www.youtube.com/watch?

[wstrnrdr]

N E G O T I A T E !!!!!

I am always in the company of my 2 Pro Negotiators.

Mr. Smith talks to the first and Mr. Wesson will talk to the second,

any one still wanting to NEGOTIATE after that I and my other 15

friends will gladly Talk.

LOL

Disparity of force may in fact be in play. If moving out of the area or situation

is not immediately possible and the threat comes to the point of fear of bodily

harm or worse, then all conversation except Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson ceases.

I will protect body and life.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

If someone comes at me or my girlfriend while we're out, and I think one of us is going to be gravely injured or killed, that person is gonna catch a Gold Dot and a visit to the local Med Center, if I miss center mass, if I don't, he's probably gonna see the M.E.

Shoot to Stop, Not to Kill, but a .40 JHP in your chest will do more than stop you from more than you think.

[G27]

but a .40 JHP in your chest will do more than stop you from more than you think.

Maybe...

Don't forget about the police shootout where the officer hit the criminal 22 times with his G22 before the scumbag stopped fighting.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Maybe...

Don't forget about the police shootout where the officer hit the criminal 22 times with his G22 before the scumbag stopped fighting.

If I'm gonna shoot 22 times... One's gonna be above the shoulders. I carry 13 rounds, and If I put 10 in someone and they're still coming, I have reason to STOP his brain function.

[vontar]

Maybe...

Don't forget about the police shootout where the officer hit the criminal 22 times with his G22 before the scumbag stopped fighting.

I don't' believe many of those where in center mass.

Flesh wounds don't count.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

"A reasonable fear of life or bodily harm to you or others" is all that is required by law in TN to justify deadly force, no mention of how many attackers. Of course we do know that may very well mean would 12 other people feel that your fear was reasonable.

With my injuries a younger and or bigger person could cause me either, it is the only reason I began carrying to begin with, up until a few years ago I would have simply tried to fight it out with them. Now doing so very well could get me killed or leave me paralyzed. Thus the permit, I am simply too darn old to take any more butt whoopings.

So...What about a case of a 14 year old (and a female) with only a .32?........Do you shoot her or do you let her shoot you?

In the following case the victim was not armed but the question remains.....could you shoot a child or would you hesitate and get yourself shot?

The 14-year-old girl charged with fatally shooting a man during a robbery attempt earlier this month fired her gun when one of the victims laughed at her because she was so young, according to police charging documents filed this morning.

Baltimore Crime Beat: Young female murder suspect fired shot after robbery victim laughed, police say - Baltimore crime news: Police, courts and police stories in the city and central Maryland - baltimoresun.com

[G27]

If I'm gonna shoot 22 times... One's gonna be above the shoulders. I carry 13 rounds, and If I put 10 in someone and they're still coming, I have reason to STOP his brain function.

Yah, I'm sure the police officer didn't think to try that...

You do realize that in the real world your attacker isn't a silhouette of paper hanging still in the range, right?

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Yah, I'm sure the police officer didn't think to try that...

You do realize that in the real world your attacker isn't a silhouette of paper hanging still in the range, right?

Yes... That's why I shoot center mass at all the target (silhouette) I shoot. Because they're head can move like crazy, but their chest doesn't move around so much.

[G27]

Yes... That's why I shoot center mass at all the target (silhouette) I shoot. Because they're head can move like crazy, but their chest doesn't move around so much.

You're kidding, right?

Do some research - tons of shootings occur where both head and COM are covered or at least concealed.

Sure, some happen at close range where only five shots are fired in total with maybe one missing, but unless you spend time training to shoot in stressful situations are moving targets that are potentially concealed, I think you're underestimating your potential foes.

You think this experienced officer didn't practice shooting COM and head shots? You think he just had 'bad aim'?

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Oops, Kinda underthought that.... I didn't even think....

Stupid kids. <--- Me