Improperly posted places.

[Guest mds3d]

So, out of curiosity, what does everyone do about carrying/not carrying at an improperly posted location.

For example... Wolfchase mall has a "no weapons" rule but it is embedded in that long list of rules at the entrances. It is no where near the required language, and it is really easy to get into the mall without passing one of those signs.

Personally, I wouldn't carry. Now, will I feel bad about places that are improperly posted and I don't find out about until later. Not really.

On a side note. I do think that places that are going to post should be encouraged to post properly (preferably a "gunbusters" sign). I feel like that it is the right of the property owner to post (just like it is my right not to shop there), but I don't think there should be any chance of a misunderstanding between me and the property owner.

I feel like some HCP holders would rather places stay improperly posted so that they cannot be charged with breaking the law (only asked to leave) if they are caught carrying there.

[Guest bkelm18]

So, out of curiosity, what does everyone do about carrying/not carrying at an improperly posted location.

For example... Wolfchase mall has a "no weapons" rule but it is embedded in that long list of rules at the entrances. It is no where near the required language, and it is really easy to get into the mall without passing one of those signs.

Personally, I wouldn't carry. Now, will I feel bad about places that are improperly posted and I don't find out about until later. Not really.

On a side note. I do think that places that are going to post should be encouraged to post properly (preferably a "gunbusters" sign). I feel like that it is the right of the property owner to post (just like it is my right not to shop there), but I don't think there should be any chance of a misunderstanding between me and the property owner.

I feel like some HCP holders would rather places stay improperly posted so that they cannot be charged with breaking the law (only asked to leave) if they are caught carrying there.

[Guest 270win]

I carry at those places. I do not leave my gun in the car to be stolen.

Places should not be encouraged to post 'proper' signs. That is not wise to make more locations that can technically result in a fine for those of us with a permit. Yeah no one has been charged yet, but it is still not smart.

None of these signs should have any legal weight. It is pure stupid. I paid for a permit to not get fined. Why do these signs only apply to those with permits? 500 dollars is the SAME fine someone gets for NOT having a permit and having a loaded pistol in the car in TN. Kind of stupid for me to get the same fine over a sign.

I have traveled enough to other states where signs don't mean squat. Go to Alabama and you can ignore any sign you want and not get fined, unless you are asked to leave and don't leave, then it is trespassing. You can carry on college campuses (with an Alabama license on K-12 schools too) down there too, sign or no sign. I don't see signs that get people with permits/licenses fined making things better...it just causes problems for the good guys and makes the bed wetters feel better.

Edited August 23, 2010 by 270win

[Oh Shoot]

I carry concealed every day, but I don't necessarily read everything I see every day everywhere I go.

I have a sophisticated legal defense plan if push ever comes to shove: "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't see it, I'll leave now."

- OS

[Alpha13]

I carry concealed every day, but I don't necessarily read everything I see every day everywhere I go.

I have a sophisticated legal defense plan if push ever comes to shove: "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't see it, I'll leave now."

- OS

Agreed!

[Fallguy]

An in proper sign doesn't mean anything to me. I mean an owner of a place can put up sign that says anything, but just because he does doesn't make it so.

The law provides a legal way for them to prohibit carry if that is what they want to do.

When I first started to carry I admit, I used to think if a place was improperly posted it should be pointed out to them so as there is no confusion. But over the years I have changed my point of view.

[Mike.357]

if they want to keep me out then slap a gunbuster sign right by the door handle. Other than that I doubt I will see it.

And by no means should anyone point out the lack of proper signage to a place that lamely attempts to post.

[JayC]

I'm all for not informing businesses they're improperly posted... but I just don't see the need to give my money to a business who doesn't respect my right to protect myself. How many places do you really go that you can't find another non-posted location instead?

I kinda understand a Doctor's office, and work... government buildings where you have virtually no other alternative... but a store in the mall? What is in the mall that I can't buy online for less money? Virtually nothing. I'm surprised they're still in business, and even more surprised they want to chase off nearly 5% of their customers in this economy.

[Guest Daelith]

I carry concealed in those places too. OhShoot has the right idea of a defense plan if for some reason someone notices and says something to me.

[Guest mds3d]

After doing some reading I am going to do a little backpedaling. I have decided that it is their own fault if places do not post properly. So, don't worry, I don't plan on explaining any TN law to business owners any time soon.

Still interested if people generally ignore these improper signs and go in, leave their gun in the car, or just add the place to the "not with my money" list.

[lowery100]

I carry even into a posted business. I picture my family standing over my coffin and saying,"well at least he followed the rules"......

[Fallguy]

I carry even into a posted business. I picture my family standing over my coffin and saying,"well at least he followed the rules"......

While many may agree with you in theory....please remember Rule 5 of the Code of Conduct

[M1_Garand]

If it is improperly posted, its their own problem for not being able to read the code / hire an attorney to do it for them. I personally follow the 'concealed means concealed' logic - meaning I'm not going to ask management to fix / clarify their signs, and ask if its ok to go armed. If for some reason I get 'made,' I will leave without argument.

[Guest 270win]

Yeah, i conceal my snub in a pocket holster or ankle holster. I don't go looking for signs and signs have to be in accordance with law, even the international signs have to be at most/all entrances used by people entering for the most part and easy to see to have any 'legal weight'. I'd say most places probably aren't legally posted because they fail to put signs either easy to see (making it a he said/she said) or at all entrances used mostly by people entering the property/building. This turns into another he said/she said silliness.

My plan is to leave quickly if someone doesn't like my gun and get in the car and drive off. That will solve any problem. I'm not going to stand there and talk about the type of sign and then someone call the police because the police won't know. This is why I firmly believe it is best to conceal in Tennessee. Until these stupid signs with five hundred dollar fines and park Class A Misdemeanor signs are done away with, School Misdemeanor/Felonies Jail/Fine, you are at risk for getting popped in public AFTER getting legal by paying your dues for a permit. Concealing puts the odds in your favor if you accidently carry where you aren't supposed to, unless you walk through a metal detector or are patted down.

[Tnscooter63]

wow I have never seen the sign and have gone there a bunch and try to look, but I usually go in thru a store front then enter the mall and I carry an xd 40 with tank top most all summer and may even print some, until I see a proper sign where ever I go, especially in the mall, I will have it with me......

I carry concealed every day, but I don't necessarily read everything I see every day everywhere I go.

I have a sophisticated legal defense plan if push ever comes to shove: "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't see it, I'll leave now."

- OS

+100

[Guest peacexxl]

Took my wife to dinner at Carrabbas in Collierville this past Saturday night. On the way out, after a great meal I saw a sign that read something along the lines of :

"While respect the rights of gun owners, it is our policy not to allow guns in our place of business"

So now the next time I get hungry for Carrabbas, i have to see if I remember their improper posting or find someplace else to go. Shame, great food and great service.

[lowery100]

While many may agree with you in theory....please remember Rule 5 of the Code of Conduct

I do not mean to encourage anyone to break the law, just a personal thing for me. What turned me on this subject is a recent instructor school I attended. Of the 56 of this schools students involved in shootings over the years, only two of them have been killed, those two did not have their guns on them(3 others were wounded). They either observed the no gun sign or it was too inconvenient to carry or what ever the reason they were unarmed when they had the legal right to be armed and they are now dead. I strongly encourage anyone who wishes to follow the letter of the law to go elsewhere when encountering a posted business. Going unarmed can lead to serious consequences.

Thanks,Fallguy for the link the rules, I do not intend to break them or step on any toes. This issue is a point of contention for me.

Edited August 23, 2010 by lowery100

[dralarms]

Took my wife to dinner at Carrabbas in Collierville this past Saturday night. On the way out, after a great meal I saw a sign that read something along the lines of :

"While respect the rights of gun owners, it is our policy not to allow guns in our place of business"

So now the next time I get hungry for Carrabbas, i have to see if I remember their improper posting or find someplace else to go. Shame, great food and great service.

That's the same garbage sign that's at outbacks. Means nothing legally. And the outbacks in Cleveland went as far as to tell me they will NOT post. Even when it was illegal to carry I was told I was welcome with mine . Had more than one wait staff tell me they were glad someone was carrying.

That said. I must agree with ohshoot. "I didn't see that, I'm sorry, I'll leave right now."

[Fallguy]

Thanks,Fallguy for the link the rules, I do not intend to break them or step on any toes. This issue is a point of contention for me.

No biggie. I knew by your post count you probably didn't know. I do see where you're coming from.

[vontar]

I am not going to point it out to a business.

When the rules changed I used to be all what the hell, make it simple it should be one big gun buster if they don't want us in there. The way it is, there are to many dam signs to watch out for. Most places unless they really only have like 2 doors can't correctly post every entrance either. So there will probably always be some wiggle room.

I agree with Oh Shoot and Mike.357.

If ask to leave, leave.

If you can avoid doing business with a posted place don't give them your money. I know sometimes we all have to deal with the devil, but If Business A is anti and Business B is Pro. Try to support Business B, even if the price might be a little more.

BTW, I still haven't gotten mine. Mine is taking longer then the average now for sure.

[vontar]

I carry at those places. I do not leave my gun in the car to be stolen.

The gun can't protect you if it is in the car and you can't protect the gun and keep it away from the bad guy if it is left in the car. I agree 100 percent. I won't be leaving a gun alone by it's self either.

[Guest jackdm3]

My plan is to leave quickly if someone doesn't like my gun and get in the car and drive off. That will solve any problem. I'm not going to stand there and talk about the type of sign and then someone call the police because the police won't know. This is why I firmly believe it is best to conceal in Tennessee. Until these stupid signs with five hundred dollar fines and park Class A Misdemeanor signs are done away with, School Misdemeanor/Felonies Jail/Fine, you are at risk for getting popped in public AFTER getting legal by paying your dues for a permit. Concealing puts the odds in your favor if you accidently carry where you aren't supposed to, unless you walk through a metal detector or are patted down.

THEY WILL FIND YOU ANYWAY!

[A.J. Holst]

Like many, I don't look for the "No Gunz Allowed" sign, though ignorance is not a valid a defense.

After hiking 2 miles across a parking lot and seeing an obvious sign on the door, I will honor their request or policy on my thrid visit. Why third? Because my first visit counts as two - my first and last.

Isn't a NGA sign an advertisement for a BG with a gun as a safe place to commit an act of armed robbery?

[Mike.357]

Isn't a NGA sign an advertisement for a BG with a gun as a safe place to commit an act of armed robbery

I would think so, but greater minds must have determined that this is not so.

[Oh Shoot]

...Isn't a NGA sign an advertisement for a BG with a gun as a safe place to commit an act of armed robbery?

I would think so, but greater minds must have determined that this is not so.

Seems to me if I was gonna rob a place, all else being equal I'd choose the posted one. Logically, it would seem to bump your odds some.

- OS