Is .40cal a useless caliber to carry?

[SonnyCrockett]

With so many .380s popularized now I dont even know why a 40 is up for debate......its better to have protection than none at all and a 40SW is a cannon !

I own a NorthAmerican Arms .22 Mag ,its the size of a BIC lighter and it WILL mess your world up if shot by it I promise ........

I got shot once (actually 5 times) by a Pellet gun and it was quite painfull ......

As far as accuracy,40SW they have a little more kick which makes them harder to shoot for most 9MM shooters because a 9MM is a low recoil round IMO

Its half the kick of a 40 but 40SW is all I shoot so I am used to it.....

Its a slow Sunday for me so ill play around on the topic

[Guest truthsayer]

I used to hate the 40. Now I carry one all the time.

[Will Carry]

Dad Gum Trigem! Did you write that dissertation! That was very well written. You eliminated many of the myths about stopping power and stuck to the facts. I have nothing to add to that. You should get that published. You should omit those pornographic pictures. Oh wait! That ain't porn....my bad.

[TN-popo]

9mm / .40 / .45

None are "useless." However, I'll take a 9mm (I'm now issued a .40).

9mm

-more bullets

-less recoil for faster follow-ups

-cheaper

-realistically, stopping power is pretty much the same with all three using proper load selection and shot placement

Edited August 15, 2010 by TN-popo

[Guest la0s615]

i carry a .40 love it it really doesn't matter what caliber you carry really as long as you carry

you don't want to be the guy that brought a knife to a gun fight

[Guest DanE479]

The .40 round has an inherent muzzle flip to it that makes for slower, and less accurate follow up shots. It is NOT inherently more accurate than a 9mm or .45. It is a compromise round that a lot of shooters have problems with in polymer framed pistols. .40s are more prone to limp wristing, which causes stoppages. I personally do not like the round. But I'm not going to tell others that it sucks. It's not for me.

I own a Glock 19 and a Glock 21 as my combat/duty/carry pistols. 9mm is cheapest out of the three rounds. My 19 is my goto training pistol. the .45 is my full size duty weapon for most situations, because it fits my hand a little better than the 17 does in a full size frame. I also wanted a little bit of diversity in caliber.

Glock23forme: The 1st rule of a gunfight is actually this: If you are going to a gunfight, bring a rifle. The second rule is:If you are going to a gunfight, bring your friends that have rifles. Lots of friends with lots of rifles. Nowhere in the rules does caliber come up.

I guess since the 9mm is such an inneffective round, all those people killed over the years with it should jsut wake up.

Caliber<shot placement. Put your shots where they need to go, and it won't matter what round you carry.

For the record, I use Winchester Ranger Talon 124gr+p for 9mm, and Speer Gold Dot 200Gr +p for my .45 or Hornady 230gr +p for my .45 (depending on the availibility of the gold dot). Both are about as good at killing a human as any pistol round can be.

[Guest db99wj]

Hit center mass multi times until threat is neutralized, and it doesn't really matter what you are throwing.

[Guest m&pc9]

The .40 is LESS inherently accurate than both .45 and 9mm (and many others, but those were the two being compared).

Bart

How is the ammo less accurate?

[Guest DanE479]

It has to do with ballistics, spin, weight, and velocity. The .40 is alomst exactly the same as the 9mm in terms of accuracy, bullet drop, and drift, but has a higher head pressure. This is merely the bullet, and does not take into account the energies imparted on the firearm, which affect the accuracy of follow up shots.

The muzzle energy of the .40 in light weight guns is a big factor in accuracy. The pressures are so high that it imparts some different recoil energies that are not in the plane of the bore axis (read: The muzzle has a tendancy to flip up, and waggle more side to side instead of the recoil being more horizontal). This is one of the overriding factors in my choice not to use a .40. It's a personal thing.

As others have said, it's not about the round, but where you put it. Drop rounds center of mass, or shut the computer off (head shots, ideally cutting the brain stem), and you are good to go.

[Guest CharlieMemphis]

Well Honestly Caliber Selection isn't an issue its about the shooter sight alignment sight picture and trigger control I have a .45 ACP, .40 S&W , and 9MM and I think all 3 have there own advantages and disadvantages IMHO. I want to get a 10MM next.

[Oh Shoot]

Dad Gum Trigem! Did you write that dissertation! ..

No. Link is at top of his post:

9mm vs .45

Stephen Camp is author and site owner.

- OS

[Guest Bronker]

No. Link is at top of his post:

9mm vs .45

Stephen Camp is author and site owner.

- OS

You roll on 9 mm's right, Chief?

Curious what you think on the great caliber debate.

[Oh Shoot]

You roll on 9 mm's right, Chief?

Curious what you think on the great caliber debate.

I simply think 9mm is "enough".

Cheaper ammo, more capacity, quicker back on target, all that.

And enough is well, enough.

- OS

[Guest Bronker]

I simply think 9mm is "enough".

Cheaper ammo, more capacity, quicker back on target, all that.

And enough is well, enough.

- OS

Me, too.

I carry a G19 every day, but keep a full-size XD .45ACP at the bedside.

Only because I don't want to carry the full-size every day, and I don't have a Glock 21!

Either way, I don't feel under-gunned with either gun.

[Smith]

The .40 was an answer to a question no one asked.. Much like the .45 GAP. It lost nearly all of it's benefits over the 9mm and .45 when they shortened the 10mm. While larger than the 9mm it doesn't have the benefits of the .45 and yet while smaller than the .45 doesn't have the benefits of the 9mm. Not that it is an enferior round but it doesn't offer any advantages the others don't already provide and it does this at the cost of more recoil and being inherently less accurate. Many people like it and it will continue to be a viable choice simply because people buy the bigger is better propaganda and see it a good compromise between 9mm and .45.

[tntnixon]

And here is where I post my favorite chart:

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0

Foolowed by:

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=18&Weight=All

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=11&Weight=All

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=11&Weight=All

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=16&Weight=All

and

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=17&Weight=All

That's all I got.

Edited August 15, 2010 by tntnixon

[Guest Bronker]

And here is where I post my favorite chart:

Top LoadsTop Loads10 mm22 Long Rifle223 Remington25 ACP30 Carbine30-30308 Winchester32 ACP357 Magnum357 SIG38 Special38 Special +P38 Special +P+380 ACP40 S&W41 Magnum44 Magnum44 Special45 ACP45 ACP +P45 Colt9 mm9 mm +P9 mm +P+Select a bullet weightAll

Top loads for each caliber Brand Bullet Shootings One Shot Stops Percent Diameter Penetration Federal 308 168 gr Match 112 110 98% 0" 24.9" Remington 223 69 gr JHP 40 39 98% 0.32" 16.9" Federal 357 Magnum 125 gr JHP 641 615 96% 0.74" 11.1" Federal 45 ACP 230 gr HS 173 166 96% 0.76" 13.9" PMC 30-30 150 gr SF 44 42 95% 0.53" 19.6" Remington 40 S&W 165 gr GS 146 137 94% 0.7" 13.9" Remington 45 ACP +P 185 gr JHP 77 71 92% 0.74" 12.9" Winchester 44 Magnum 210 gr JHP 71 65 92% 0.81" 16.3" Federal 357 SIG 125 gr JHP 24 22 92% 0.62" 12.3" Federal 9 mm +P+ 115 gr JHP 189 172 91% 0.71" 13.9" Winchester 41 Magnum 170 gr ST 61 55 90% 0.68" 14.9" Federal 10 mm 155 gr JHP 20 18 90% 0.73" 12.4" Speer 9 mm +P 124 gr GD 74 65 88% 0.71" 13.6" Winchester 30 Carbine 110 gr JSP 43 38 88% 0.42" 0" Winchester 9 mm 115 gr ST 421 349 83% 0.64" 13.7" Federal 45 Colt 225 gr LHP 36 29 81% 0.51" 14.9" Winchester 38 Special +P+ 110 gr JHP 49 39 80% 0.64" 12.1" Remington 38 Special +P 125 gr GS 10 8 80% 0.68" 12.4" Winchester 44 Special 200 gr ST 70 53 76% 0.58" 13.8" Federal 380 ACP 90 HS 96 68 71% 0.56" 9.4" Winchester 32 ACP gr ST 151 99 66% 0.41" 9.2" Federal 38 Special 129 gr HS 77 50 65% 0.56" 10.2" CCI Stinger 22 LR HP 465 178 38% 0.28" 7.3" Winchester 25 ACP gr Expanding Point 204 55 27% 0.3" 8.9"BT = Black Talon GS = Golden Saber GD = Gold Dot HS = Hydra Shok ST = Silvertip LRN = Lead Round Nose SWC = Semi Wadcutter JHP = Jacketed Hollow Point FMJ = Full Metal Jacket Diameter and Penetration are the average from bullets recovered in actual shootings. All data taken from Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's book: Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition and used with permission from the author.

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[tntnixon]

It didn't look the same after I clicked "post quick reply. But fixed it by putting in the links.

[Guest Bronker]

It didn't look the same after I clicked "post quick reply. But fixed it by putting in the links.

[Guest DanE479]

By the tables, there's a negligible difference between anything in .40 and the loads I carry in 9mm and .45ACP.

Meh. I still say shot placement is key.

[tntnixon]

By the tables, there's a negligible difference between anything in .40 and the loads I carry in 9mm and .45ACP.

Meh. I still say shot placement is key.

The other thing of note is the "4" barrel or less" notes on many rounds, which constitues the majority of concealed carry weapons, negated almost all the advantages of one round over another.

[DaveTN]

Do you think that .40cal is a stupid round to carry or it is a good middle ground?

It’s a superior round to the 9mm; that’s why a lot of departments have gone to it.

Based on what I have seen myself, it is third in line behind the .45ACP and .357Mag as a choice for a carry round.

I own a couple of carry guns in .40S&W; I haven’t owned any 9mm’s in years. I would own a 9mm if I could find a cheap 1911 range gun chambered it 9mm. 9MM to me is a cheap paper puncher.

However…. That’s just how the caliber wars go.

Most people commenting here have never seen a shooting, never seen a person that has been shot, doesn’t know enough about physics to look at anything other than velocity, and has little or no experience with the rounds they are pretending to know something about. Their Dad or brother told them a 9mm was a great round and that’s all it took.

How boring would things be without a “Caliber Wars†debate every once in awhile?

[tntnixon]

It’s a superior round to the 9mm; that’s why a lot of departments have gone to it.

Based on what I have seen myself, it is third in line behind the .45ACP and .357Mag as a choice for a carry round.

I own a couple of carry guns in .40S&W; I haven’t owned any 9mm’s in years. I would own a 9mm if I could find a cheap 1911 range gun chambered it 9mm. 9MM to me is a cheap paper puncher.

However…. That’s just how the caliber wars go.

Most people commenting here have never seen a shooting, never seen a person that has been shot, doesn’t know enough about physics to look at anything other than velocity, and has little or no experience with the rounds they are pretending to know something about. Their Dad or brother told them a 9mm was a great round and that’s all it took.

How boring would things be without a “Caliber Wars” debate every once in awhile?

Have put together lots of people who were shot by a 9mm to go back to doing what they were doing when they got shot.

Very rarely have I put a 40S&W shooting "victim" back on the streets.

.45 and .357 shootings are so rare, nowadays, I don't think I've ever seen one come into my hands. May mean they didn't make it to the hospital due to being pronounced on the scene, though.

[Garufa]

Get a 40 and get Hydrostatic Shock off the charts.

That will be my only contribution because caliber wars are BS and I personally like and carry the 40. On top of that I am dead-nuts accurate with it, even with follow up shots. The recoil is not that much worse than a 9mm and about on par with a 45. It is very controllable.

Pick a freakin' caliber and learn how to shoot it. I feel the same way about the LCP I also like to carry. If that little gun is ever used, whoever is on the business end is going to have a very, very bad day.

Since the chances of you ever having to use any weapon in a self defense situation is slim to none, pick what gun and caliber you are most comfortable with and learn how to use it.

[Mike.357]

By the tables, there's a negligible difference between anything in .40 and the loads I carry in 9mm and .45ACP.

Meh. I still say shot placement is key.

a 7.65 will take someone out of the fight with proper placement. Lot of people been put down with it in the last 110 years