Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center

[Oh Shoot]

Last time I checked, there were several mosques in NYC. We don't need one more, most definitely NOT on that piece of property or on that block. Three blocks away...knock yourself out. But, NOT THERE!,,,

The proposed mosque is about 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

So, one more block away from Ground Zero (3 blocks) is okay?

Or do you mean 2+3 = 5 blocks away from Ground Zero is okay?

There is already a small mosque 2000 feet from Ground Zero. The new one would be about 1400 feet.

Is there some exact distance where it ceases to be an issue?

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

.... Kind of like Catholics who divorce, remarry and have abortions...

Ah but Catholics only have to go to confession and do penance, all is forgiven.

Show me a Baptist who is a drunk and I will show you a person who is not a baptist. ..

Wow, the Southern Baptist Convention must have really tightened the rules!

- OS

[JayC]

In a way they did win.

+1 - We're now a country of scared little sheep who want the 'government' to save us from the scary terrorists.

[Guest RevScottie]

John 8:7

...Or, he without violence in his religion cast the first stone....

Well based on some of the opinions in this thread we had better block the building of any new Jewish worship centers because here is what their Holy book teaches them:

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6) "Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9) "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)

Having someone smite me with a sword doesn't sound like a good thing so now I guess we need to fear all Jews as well?

[JayC]

So which government agency do you feel should be the one in charge of determining how many religious buildings of what type are allowed per city/town?

Who exactly do you trust to make that call?

Last time I checked, there were several mosques in NYC. We don't need one more, most definitely NOT on that piece of property or on that block. Three blocks away...knock yourself out. But, NOT THERE!

You seem to be of like mind with the liberals and the likes of obama STILL saying that we have to continue proving ourselves to these extremist thugs. T.S.! Reminds me of some b.s. sensitivity training class they tried to make us take back in the 80's - "warm fuzzies" and all that spineless blather. We have NOTHING to prove to these psycho's, except DON'T MESS WITH US! (i.e. U.S)

[JayC]

+1

In 2008 Muslim's made up 0.6% of the population... They just aren't the threat some people make them out to be.

How are you going to fall into slavery over this? If they were to try to seize power through force I would be one of the first to load my rifle but this is not the case. I got into a discussion earlier with a friend on just how real the possibility is that Muslims could take over and install a rule under Sharia law. It just isn't probable. If by some improbable chance they were able to gain political power, the process of them dismantling our laws in favor of a Sharia system would take a fundamental change in the very thinking of Americans. Americans love their freedoms and it is inconceivable to think that would easily cast them aside to any ruling party. The Constitution as a mere document vs the Constitutional principals that are ingrained in the majority of Americans are two different things. (Think V for Vendetta). The people themselves wouldn't let that happen even if the government tried. Sharia law is radically different than just a Government system that is sympathetic to Muslims and it just wouldn't stand.

Its still too far fetched for me to lose sleep over.

[strickj]

yes they are, they are taught to lie and be deceitful to gain their goal of killing all infidels. i do not believe the first word that comes out of a Muslim's mouth. Unless it is a word to try to destroy anything non Muslim. If they are not like this then they are not Muslim. Kind of like Catholics who divorce, remarry and have abortions. You cannot pick and choose parts of a faith to follow and still follow that faith! Show me a Baptist who is a drunk and I will show you a person who is not a baptist. its pretty simple really.

I missed this until ohshoot quoted it...

To say religion is all or nothing is ludicrous.

No one in any religion is perfect or follows their good book the way it should.

t doesn't mean they're any less of a follower.

[setsdw]

I missed this until ohshoot quoted it...

To say religion is all or nothing is ludicrous.

No one in any religion is perfect or follows their good book the way it should.

t doesn't mean they're any less of a follower.

You nailed it there. If varying slightly from the rules of our respective religions, no matter the degree, means we cant participate, most of us would have been kicked out a long time ago.

[setsdw]

So which government agency do you feel should be the one in charge of determining how many religious buildings of what type are allowed per city/town?

Who exactly do you trust to make that call?

No kidding. As I said in an earlier post, if you give the government that kind of power over the lives of private citizens someday that power could be turned against you. Today it could be limiting mosques in New York, tomorrow they could apply that to anything they felt like limiting.

[mcurrier]

The problem with this entire thread is the constant reference to THEY and THEIR and THEIR plans for my destruction. I have a good freind who is a Muslim and he has yet to speak ill against me much less call for my destruction and I would think that a Christian pastor should be high on his hit list. Not all Muslims are the blood thirsty Sharia Law loving terrorists they are being made out to be. If there is any 3rd grade oversimplification it is those who are painting all Muslims with the same broad brush. How many people on this thread even know or have had an in depth conversation with a Muslim?

YAY! We found one. Out of millions and millions. Although I have to say that the so-called 'good ones' are being overshadowed by the ones who both by their actions and their words are bent on the destruction of us all. Perhaps they should speak up?!?! Perhaps they should take back their so-called religion of 'peace' from those who would twist it. Are they afraid to? Why?

By that same token, perhaps Mexicans should stand up, speak up and retake control of their own country rather than coming here to mooch off of ours. That goes for all foreign nationalities. Grow a pair and retake your own countries. What, you want our help? But that would offend all of the liberal hippy crybabies that say we get involved in other people's affairs too much. Well then, let them take care of it on their own, but stop coming here as a way of escaping the problems of your own country that you let happen.

I saw a commercial a few weeks ago previewing an upcoming documentary of a family that was coming to America because their own country sucked. It instantly pissed me off! I immediately wondered why they were not pissed off enough to rise up and take their country back rather than running away, as if running away and coming here is going to solve the problem. Go back to your country and fix the problem. What? They took all of your guns? Well, you let that happen, not me.

btw, there are tons of mosques in America. How many churches and synagogues are there in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lybia, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan.... ????????????????????

[mcurrier]

The proposed mosque is about 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

So, one more block away from Ground Zero (3 blocks) is okay?

Or do you mean 2+3 = 5 blocks away from Ground Zero is okay?

There is already a small mosque 2000 feet from Ground Zero. The new one would be about 1400 feet.

Is there some exact distance where it ceases to be an issue?

- OS

Yes, there is. NOT within the circle of destroyed buildings (i.e g-r-o-u-n-d z-e-r-o), nor any buildings on the inner perimeter of that circle, especially including ones which were directly touched by the attack (such as the proposed site for the mosque). Does that answer it for you? And try to use some common sense here. Why do you think they are calling it 'Cordoba House'? They are intentionally and purposely making a statement and shoving it up our nose, down our throat and up our a$$. If you can't see that my friend, you are either blind, or willfully ignoring the obvious (as are many others, to their own detriment, in the name of political correctness). Keep it up and I shall have to start referring to you as Mr. Chamberlain.

So which government agency do you feel should be the one in charge of determining how many religious buildings of what type are allowed per city/town?

Who exactly do you trust to make that call?

None. I trust no government agency to make any decision about anything. I trust the American people. They have common sense. And I believe 65-70% have stated that they do not want it. I believe the number has reported as being equal or maybe even a bit higher among New Yorkers. So I'll add my gut feeling to theirs.

Regardless of any gubment agency approval or disapproval (most likely a major approval given this regime), there are still ways to stop this. Knowing the resolve of New Yorkers, and having previously been one, construction workers have vowed not to work on it, others are taking other tactics (purchasing other necessary properties), so in the end, I have no doubt that it will not happen in this lifetime.

Edited August 25, 2010 by mcurrier
spelling

[mcurrier]

Well based on some of the opinions in this thread we had better block the building of any new Jewish worship centers because here is what their Holy book teaches them:

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6) "Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9) "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)

Having someone smite me with a sword doesn't sound like a good thing so now I guess we need to fear all Jews as well?

Last time I checked (1 minute ago), Jews weren't running around calling for the destruction of other countries or religions and weren't chopping off other people's heads, much less their own (never even heard of a single instance of it). Muslims on the other hand have been publicly calling for the destruction of other countries, religions and people's, and muslims HAVE been chopping off other people's heads (proudly on video no less), as well as their own. Are you so blind that you simply can not see that? Or do you not wish to see it?

I've yet to see Jews marching in the streets, firing their weapons into the air, calling for the destruction of another country, religion or people. Please show me where that has happened. I would be interested in knowing.

You can't argue with the truth.

[strickj]

By that same token, perhaps Mexicans should stand up, speak up and retake control of their own country rather than coming here to mooch off of ours. That goes for all foreign nationalities. Grow a pair and retake your own countries. What, you want our help? But that would offend all of the liberal hippy crybabies that say we get involved in other people's affairs too much. Well then, let them take care of it on their own, but stop coming here as a way of escaping the problems of your own country that you let happen.

I saw a commercial a few weeks ago previewing an upcoming documentary of a family that was coming to America because their own country sucked. It instantly pissed me off! I immediately wondered why they were not pissed off enough to rise up and take their country back rather than running away, as if running away and coming here is going to solve the problem. Go back to your country and fix the problem. What? They took all of your guns? Well, you let that happen, not me.

Kinda like we did, right?

Oh wait.....

btw, there are tons of mosques in America. How many churches and synagogues are there in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lybia, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan.... ????????????????????

How many of those places have the 1st Amendment?

You want to be like those countries?

But, FWIW, Mosques will welcome people of other faiths. Even in the places you mentioned. All that is required is showing respect to the Mosque.

How many churches here would welcome a Muslim?

If it's Smiths' church, he may be killed at first sight

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I got no dawg in this hunt. Seems a distraction to more important issues. I don't care whether they build a mosque in NYC. Its up to the locals.

Ron Paul appears "pro mosque" for whatever it matters. Equating "pro mosque" with pro first amendment and pro property rights.

Ron Paul Backs "Ground Zero Mosque," Splitting with Son Rand - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

"

Libertarian Congressman Ron Paul is breaking with many of his fellow Republicans - among them his son Rand - to support the creation of the planned Islamic cultural center near the former site of the World Trade Center that has come to be known as the "ground zero mosque."

In a statement decrying "demagogy" around the issue, the former Republican presidential candidate wrote late last week that "the debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque."

"Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be 'sensitive' requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from 'ground zero,'" Paul continues.

He goes on to argue that "the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia...never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars."

Adds Paul: "It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don't want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators."

"This is all about hate and Islamaphobia," he argues. "

[JayC]

I think you should go read some of the news papers from Israel then... there is a very vocal right wing religious group in Israel who believes the Holy Land is there for them and they on a regular basis are violating Arab property rights, and have performed attacks on the Arabs living in the West Bank... Keep in mind not 10 years ago a 'right wing' religious member assassinated a presidential candidate over the issue of dealing with the Arabs in the region.

Look at the 80's after the attacks on the Olympics... Israel as a country started a terrorist campaign including killing many innocent civilians to attack religious leaders of the PLO and members who had planned or funded the Olympic attacks.

I'm not saying these folks are wrong in what they did, or how they do it... But there is a lot of information which does not get published in American news papers.

In virtually every major religious branch there are crazy zealots willing to kill in the name of their religion... it doesn't take much digging to find them.

Last time I checked (1 minute ago), Jews weren't running around calling for the destruction of other countries or religions and weren't chopping off other people's heads, much less their own (never even heard of a single instance of it). Muslims on the other hand have been publicly calling for the destruction of other countries, religions and people's, and muslims HAVE been chopping off other people's heads (proudly on video no less), as well as their own. Are you so blind that you simply can not see that? Or do you not wish to see it?

I've yet to see Jews marching in the streets, firing their weapons into the air, calling for the destruction of another country, religion or people. Please show me where that has happened. I would be interested in knowing.

You can't argue with the truth.

[JayC]

The government isn't there to protect the rights of the majority, but to protect the rights of the minority... We're not a democracy.

Remember the story of 2 wolves and a sheep sitting down and deciding whats from dinner... How is your suggestion any different?

Yes, there is. NOT within the circle of destroyed buildings (i.e g-r-o-u-n-d z-e-r-o), nor any buildings on the inner perimeter of that circle, especially including ones which were directly touched by the attack (such as the proposed site for the mosque). Does that answer it for you? And try to use some common sense here. Why do you think they are calling it 'Cordoba House'? They are intentionally and purposely making a statement and shoving it up our nose, down our throat and up our a$$. If you can't see that my friend, you are either blind, or willfully ignoring the obvious (as are many others, to their own detriment, in the name of political correctness). Keep it up and I shall have to start referring to you as Mr. Chamberlain.

None. I trust no government agency to make any decision about anything. I trust the American people. They have common sense. And I believe 65-70% have stated that they do not want it. I believe the number has reported as being equal or maybe even a bit higher among New Yorkers. So I'll add my gut feeling to theirs.

Regardless of any gubment agency approval or disapproval (most likely a major approval given this regime), there are still ways to stop this. Knowing the resolve of New Yorkers, and having previously been one, construction workers have vowed not to work on it, others are taking other tactics (purchasing other necessary properties), so in the end, I have no doubt that it will not happen in this lifetime.

[Mike.357]

I heard on Fox that a piece of one of the planes actually struck the building in question. It ought to be designated a war memorial on account of that alone.

[Garufa]

It's a war memorial alright. For them.

[Smith]

Kinda like we did, right?

Oh wait.....

How many of those places have the 1st Amendment?

You want to be like those countries?

But, FWIW, Mosques will welcome people of other faiths. Even in the places you mentioned. All that is required is showing respect to the Mosque.

How many churches here would welcome a Muslim?

If it's Smiths' church, he may be killed at first sight

Your ignorance shines. This thread has run it's course IMO. I don't mind discussions, but you're crossing the line. Moderators making personal attacks ...nice.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Smith

[Guest RevScottie]

Last time I checked (1 minute ago), Jews weren't running around calling for the destruction of other countries or religions and weren't chopping off other people's heads, much less their own (never even heard of a single instance of it). ...

I've yet to see Jews marching in the streets, firing their weapons into the air, calling for the destruction of another country, religion or people. Please show me where that has happened. I would be interested in knowing.

You can't argue with the truth.

Please show me an example of AMERICAN Muslims firing their weapons, cutting of peoples heads etc. As of 1/2 minute ago I haven't seen that either.

[setsdw]

If you really think that is the message that is received, your communication skills and understanding of the human race is gonna get you in a LOT of trouble. I would suggest if you are not married .... don't. It will not last long.

Personal attacks? Interesting......

[Smith]

Personal attacks? Interesting......

I said it in humor, thus the smilie, and it wasn't a personal attack. Maybe you need to read it again.

[strickj]

Your ignorance shines. This thread has run it's course IMO. I don't mind discussions, but you're crossing the line. Moderators making personal attacks ...nice.

What personal attack?

For one, I am not a mod in this forum. I am a member just like everyone else.

For two, if you have a problem with me or my post then report me.

[setsdw]

I said it in humor, thus the smilie, and it wasn't a personal attack. Maybe you need to read it again.

Kinda sounds like a double standard to me. I guess you can say whatever you want as long as you put a smiley at the end of it.

[Smith]

What personal attack?

For one, I am not a mod in this forum. I am a member just like everyone else.

For two, if you have a problem with me or my post then report me.

Maybe I misread your intent. It's been a long day, but your insinuation that my self or my "church" would kill someone is a little much. If I took it wrong my apology.