Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center

[pegasusrider]

Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center - CNN.com

[eapking]

Keep it up Big O. Bloomberg's ratings in NY are dropping like a stone because of this same topic. Hope this helps his sink even lower.

[-boatman-]

Why am I not surprised? Being weak and giving in to everyone will not make the world love us like he thinks it will.

[Guest mosinon]

The smart political move is to keep silent on this issue. He's right and all but there is no benefit to be gained by addressing this issue. Spend political capital wisely. Oh, wait, wise spending, now I get it.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What else would you expect him to do? It's right up his alley.

[Oh Shoot]

The smart political move is to keep silent on this issue. He's right and all but there is no benefit to be gained by addressing this issue. Spend political capital wisely. Oh, wait, wise spending, now I get it.

I actually agree with a few commentators lately that O has already conceded he'll be a one-termer, and is just gonna let it rip.

Like he has all along...

The Hildebeest lurks prominently.

- OS

[Guest mosinon]

I actually agree with a few commentators lately that O has already conceded he'll be a one-termer, and is just gonna let it rip.

Like he has all along...

The Hildebeest lurks prominently.

- OS

I'll bet you a 100 round box of cheap ammo he goes the full two terms. The republicans will retake at least one branch of congress and nothing will get done. I think Bill Clinton was in this same spot when at this time in his tenure and it worked out okay for him.

But that is just the pessimist in me. I've never liked the sitting President regardless of the party so I think I'm flawed in some way, everything always looks greener to me.

[Oh Shoot]

I'll bet you a 100 round box of cheap ammo he goes the full two terms. The republicans will retake at least one branch of congress and nothing will get done. I think Bill Clinton was in this same spot when at this time in his tenure and it worked out okay for him. .

Well, Slick Willy came back to center after distancing himself from Hildebeest's universal health care fiasco. I see no indication that O is even capable of suspending his ideology, regardless of facts, data, and reason.

Anything's possible, but right now I'm a little more concerned about Something Big happening (or being manufactured), and elections suspended to deal with National (in)Security Crisis.

- OS

[Guest mosinon]

Well, Slick Willy came back to center after distancing himself from Hildebeest's universal health care fiasco. I see no indication that O is even capable of suspending his ideology, regardless of facts, data, and reason.

Anything's possible, but right now I'm a little more concerned about Something Big happening (or being manufactured), and elections suspended to deal with National (in)Security Crisis.

- OS

That's what they said about Bush. As for suspending ideology, I wouldn't worry about that, he's a politician after all. Those guys can bend a lot to get a vote. Recall that Bill came back to center after the republicans retook the house. And also realize that Obama hasn't been as far left as Bill was.

The biggest mistakes the repubs are making is trying to paint Obama as a crazy socialist liberal, not born here, secret muslim. This worked before people knew him but it is failing. They need to drill home the ineptness of the administration. Obama seems to be really good at playing congress and all but it doesn't seem to pay off for the American people. Does anyone want someone who is good at gaming congress or do people want jobs and such? It is a simple message.

The next person who runs against Obama needs to remember that it is the economy, not anything else, that really matters.

I'm not sure that there is a lot left in the economy so we may have a succession of one termers.

[Oh Shoot]

That's what they said about Bush. As for suspending ideology, I wouldn't worry about that, he's a politician after all. Those guys can bend a lot to get a vote. Recall that Bill came back to center after the republicans retook the house. And also realize that Obama hasn't been as far left as Bill was. <etc>

All certainly as reasonable a likelihood as anything I postulated.

I have never felt more involved with ongoing US history as in the last few years, not since I first became an intermittent news junkie during Richard Milhous' Mafia (I mean, presidency).

Things seem to be accelerating so fast it's like condensing time into weekly chapters.

- OS

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The beauty of 'the wisdom of the voting masses' assuming there isn't so much fraud as to short-circuit it-- What was so good about the last 6 years of Clinton was the gridlock. Talking heads complained of the gridlock, getting nothing done. But getting nothing done is perhaps the most ideal achievable situation.

A lot of the good Reagan years were also notable for gridlock.

When the republicans get complete control they screw it up in one fashion, and then democrats in complete control screw it up in another fashion.

If republicans can take over congress and go hard-right no-compromise, and BHO stays hard-left no-compromise-- If republicans get so busy with investigations that BHO's admenstruation doesn't have time to do anything except fight off legal hazards--

If they get so busy in-fighting in Washington to leave the rest of the nation alone, then things ought to improve.

I think the majority of voters at least instinctively would prefer gridlock compared to a "productive" government. Gridlock would be better than a "productive" right-wing govt, or a "productive" left-wing govt. It is even worse when the dems and repubs "reach across the aisle" and compromise to get something done. The compromise is almost always the very worst leftist ideas merged with the very worst rightist ideas.

[Ebow1]

"Repeatedly invoking the nation's founders and examples of religious tolerance from American history, the president argued that national ideals and the Constitution demanded that the project proceed"

So all of sudden Obama cares about the Constitution now?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

"Repeatedly invoking the nation's founders and examples of religious tolerance from American history, the president argued that national ideals and the Constitution demanded that the project proceed"

So all of sudden Obama cares about the Constitution now?

He might if it is printed on his toilet paper.

[Steelharp]

While I hate this guy, and truly hope he is a one termer... and I totally disagree on this mosque being built in the chosen location just under good old common sense and respect principles... THIS is the heart of the matter: "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country." And that is true; we are "freedom of religion," not "freedom FROM religion," and that must universally apply.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

There is a huge difference between Clinton and Obama.

Clinton, first and foremost is a politician. He could lie his way out of anything, including impeachment.

Obama is a complete idealogue, first, and a narcissistic

but mediocre politician second. I don't see how he could

win a second term. Hillary is going to challenge him in

the primary. If the democrats have any redemption at all,

they will realize their mistake of Obama and will do the swap. Otherwise, it will be a huge blunder to keep him on the ticket. The democrat party is ruined because of him. The republican party may be right behind them, also. Hillary has learned from a pro and she will get the nod this time.

[Worriedman]

While I hate this guy, and truly hope he is a one termer... and I totally disagree on this mosque being built in the chosen location just under good old common sense and respect principles... THIS is the heart of the matter: "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country." And that is true; we are "freedom of religion," not "freedom FROM religion," and that must universally apply.

And Catholics and Protestants have the same right. What would be the result if the Para's blew up Notre Dame and purchased some part of the ruins and wanted to build a Presbyterian Church on the site of Touchdown Jesus? It would be legal, but would it be prudent?

[JayC]

And Catholics and Protestants have the same right. What would be the result if the Para's blew up Notre Dame and purchased some part of the ruins and wanted to build a Presbyterian Church on the site of Touchdown Jesus? It would be legal, but would it be prudent?

So the government should stop all things which aren't prudent?

I'm not a fan of Islam, but trust me, if people stop this mosque from being built, the same line of thought will be used against Christians in the not so distance future.

This is the problem with a large chunk of the Religious right and Americans in general, they can't see the bigger picture... they are so blinded by outage but can't see that by getting rid of this mosque they only empower the Government to do the same to their own religious institutions in the future.

There are plenty of legal and constitutional ways to block this mosque from going in... Don't do business with anybody who builds it... if 60+% (as some polls show) don't want the mosque built... make a website that details EVERY business who touches the mosque site and stop buying products and services from them. There is a second building which needs to be purchased... put together a group, raise donations to save the building from being turned into a mosque and offer to pay more money for the building... $1 from every American who is against the mosque will give you plenty of buying power. Then donate the building, or create a historical site...

There is no need to demand that the Government fix this... If you don't want the mosque built do something yourself.

[Worriedman]

JayC, I agree with your logic completely, I guess I made my point poorly.

I think Obama's push to make sure it gets built as a exactly the wrong thing to do. I do think his support of it is in the best interest of the country, as it tears the veil, and shows what his intentions truly are.

I have no problem with the free exercise of Religion, but placing a standard of conquest on the site of Ground Zero is a different thing entirely. Let the People handle it, keep the Feds out completely.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Worriedman

[Smith]

JayC that same "logic" is used against Christians all over. Banning prayer in school, ten commandment displays ect. while having school kids role playing muslims or other cultural religious ceramonies as cultural plurality. Seperate muslim prayer rooms in the same places bibles andprayer are not allowed.

But all that is not the issue here. Arguing simple constitutionality and freedoms in this case is a kwik arguement. Make no mistake. What is happeneing is an attempt to use this as a radical Islamic anti-american propaganda statement not unlike the original bombings. One the other side we have Americans grossly over simplyfing the letter of the law while completley missing original intent in an attempt to "win the hearts and minds" of the avowed enemy. Do we not learn from our recent past?

Edited August 14, 2010 by Smith

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The muslims want that mosque at that site primarily

to serve as a reminder of a conquest. That's what they

do. Go to Jerusalem for an example.

Smith is exactly right in one of his earlier posts, mentioning the difference between the muslims and

Christianity. Islam is only a political structure,

laced in a religious form.

[Guest Letereat!]

Politicians will do anything for a vote, and if it offends the whole country to gain the endorsement of Muslims then our president doesn’t give a rip. What rubs me is that the solution is simple. When Mr. Sharia law decides he wants to build a mosque and goes to the Mayor and declares his intention, the reply should have been something like the following. “In the interest of solidarity between our two countries you can build your mosque wherever you like, and we will go to your country and build a Grand cathedral where Christians in your country may worship. Err uh excuse me….what was that Mr. Sharia law, you do not allow Christians or their houses of worship in your country. Come again…..as a matter of principle you are obliged to murder them in the name of Allah etc, etc.

Well Then u can kiss my American ass jack hole NO DEAL! NO Mosque!!!!!”

[strickj]

It's a real shame that the first amendment is getting in the way of this. Shame, shame

[Ebow1]

I've got an idea. Let them build their mosque, let them get comfortable in it. Buy the land right beside it and build a Corky's BBQ.

The radical Islamics are using our own constitution against us. They are setting themselves up in positions of power and every single mosque in this country amplifies that. They will say over and over that Islam is a religion of peace as they have in the past... and it will be, until they have superior numbers. As soon as they believe they are capable they will force Shariah law upon as many as they can. It is the history of Islam and of the countries they currently rule over.

[Mike.357]

let them build a mosque somewhere else.

And good luck to them finding a quality crew to build it. No non muslim construction worker in NYC will touch that job.

Maybe they can find enuogh of their kind to build it. I wonder if they will even be able to find suppliers.

[JayC]

So two wrongs make a right? I've never seen students prohibited from praying on their own in school, or prohibited from bringing a bible to school... I will admit there are some court cases which upset my stomach on this subject... Cases where the court has prohibited students saying a pray at a graduation ceremony... but since the student in all cases was acting in some quasi official capacity... (Delivering a speech, trying to pray over a loud speaker, etc). I can understand how some might view that as endorsing a religion, I don't fully agree... As long as I have the choice to get up and leave, it's fine by me.

Also, I'm not aware of a public institution where bibles and christian prayer are not allowed, but muslim prayer rooms are... can you cite 2 examples of this? There is a simple way to solve all this muslim nonsense in schools... Go to your church, find a lawyer who attends, and together file a lawsuit against the school board for endorsing the Islamic faith over Christianity with lots of zero's behind it... then offer to settle for filing fees and them dropping the Islamic studies from the course.... This is exactly what anti-religious people have been doing for the better part of 30 years and it appears to work just fine for them.

Again, if you don't want the mosque built... buy the other building they need... picket and boycott any business who works with them... There are legal and constitutional ways to solve this problem.

People can block this mosque without the governments help... Government (all levels) have no business in regulating religious practice and worship in any way shape or form... Encouraging them to do so is going to be the long slow death of the Christian faith in this country.

And for the record... standing on principals is not a kwik argument... it's called being faithful to my beliefs. I don't want somebody telling me where I can and can't build a church... so why should I have the ability to force my beliefs on somebody else. And then be surprised when the same is done to me down the road.

JayC that same "logic" is used against Christians all over. Banning prayer in school, ten commandment displays ect. while having school kids role playing muslims or other cultural religious ceramonies as cultural plurality. Seperate muslim prayer rooms in the same places bibles andprayer are not allowed.

But all that is not the issue here. Arguing simple constitutionality and freedoms in this case is a kwik arguement. Make no mistake. What is happeneing is an attempt to use this as a radical Islamic anti-american propaganda statement not unlike the original bombings. One the other side we have Americans grossly over simplyfing the letter of the law while completley missing original intent in an attempt to "win the hearts and minds" of the avowed enemy. Do we not learn from our recent past?