Failed Federal .223 ammo pics

[Glock30]

It was suggested I post these pics. Federal .223 55 grain FMJ from Wal-Mart. This round jammed my new AR-15 and locked my bolt up.

Can anyone tell me what happened?

[Kenstaroni]

Looks like it didn't feed right out of the mag and bent the bullet down. May have wedged itself in the chamber. The neck of the bullet looks smashed up too. I've had numerous failures to fire out of WWFederal, but nothing like what you experienced. I stay away from the stuff for these reasons and because it's $0.44 per round...lol

[Glock30]

and because it's $0.44 per round

No joke! Beginner's unluck on that one. Fortunately I only bought one box.

[Rightwinger]

Do you have calipers? It may just be the pic but that shoulder looks set back. Is there a ridge or burr along the front where it first necks down? That could have been caused if the bullet hung up on the feed ramp or caused it to jam.

How did you get it out? Cleaning rod from the muzzle? That could have caused the damage to the bullet.

[Rightwinger]

Standard feed ramp or M4 cuts?

[Oh Shoot]

I've shot at least 300 rounds of the Wally packaged Federal in Mini 14, not the first prob.

Indeed, it seems quite accurate, with plenty of oomph.

I guess question is, was there something out of spec with the round BEFORE you loaded it in mag or not?

Pretty hard to say looking at it now.

Other questions: this was among the very first rounds you've run through the new AR?

Heck, was it the very first round period?

Can you hand cycle the Federal (or other brands) through it okay?

- OS

[Glock30]

It is the M4. I have calipers at work and I will take more pics with calipers in hand tomorrow.

As far as getting it out, the weapon would not safety at first. After much frustration and some good advice, the weapon was opened up, hammer was locked back and the weapon was successfully put into safety. Closed the weapon. Next, the weapon's buttstock was pulled all the way in. The charging handle was pulled while hitting the buttstock on a hard surface, and viola, out ejects the offending round. I was advised of the method and then later read it in the USMC AR-15 operator manual.

With fresh ammo (from the same box, no less) put into a magazine, the weapon fired just fine.

[Kenstaroni]

It is the M4. I have calipers at work and I will take more pics with calipers in hand tomorrow.

As far as getting it out, the weapon would not safety at first. After much frustration and some good advice, the weapon was opened up, hammer was locked back and the weapon was successfully put into safety. Closed the weapon. Next, the weapon's buttstock was pulled all the way in. The charging handle was pulled while hitting the buttstock on a hard surface, and viola, out ejects the offending round. I was advised of the method and then later read it in the USMC AR-15 operator manual.

With fresh ammo (from the same box, no less) put into a magazine, the weapon fired just fine.

That is the proper way to deal with a stuck casing. Just don't stand over top of the barrel while doing so...lol Probably a bad round. As mentioned, the WWFederal is very inconsistent. I'd feel better about running Wolf....at least 100% of the 4-5k rounds I've fired have all gone bang...lol

[Glock30]

I've shot at least 300 rounds of the Wally packaged Federal in Mini 14, not the first prob.

Indeed, it seems quite accurate, with plenty of oomph.

I guess question is, was there something out of spec with the round BEFORE you loaded it in mag or not?

Pretty hard to say looking at it now.

Other questions: this was among the very first rounds you've run through the new AR?

Heck, was it the very first round period?

Can you hand cycle the Federal (or other brands) through it okay?

- OS

The ammo shoots quite nicely, OS. I was splitting flat coke cans into two pieces from 50 yards - good stuff!!

As far as I know, the round was normal when loaded. I had fired approximately 70 rounds through the weapon before this one. Roughly 4 failure to feeds prior to that. It has 80 rounds through it at present - all from the same wonderful box. I will be getting some 5.56 NATO to put through it soon... should fix whatever shortcomings the weapon has left!!

[Glock30]

That is the proper way to deal with a stuck casing. Just don't stand over top of the barrel while doing so...lol Probably a bad round. As mentioned, the WWFederal is very inconsistent. I'd feel better about running Wolf....at least 100% of the 4-5k rounds I've fired have all gone bang...lol

Never had a problem with Federal before... .45 ACP, .40, 9 mm, .22 LR... all ran just fine, NEVER a problem with the big rounds.

As far as Wolf goes, does the lacquered steel turn into trouble when it comes to extracting the spent rounds? I've seen the zinc plated Brown Bear and thought that might be less hastle.

[Kenstaroni]

I'm not saying every box is going to have a bad one....or three. Me and some buddies go shooting 3-4 times per year and each time they stop at Wally World and pick up 2-3 boxes of .223 to run through one of my AR's. Every time we have had at least one, and up to 5-6 failures to fire per box with that ammo. No other ammo has ever had a problem, even Wolf, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, and Tula. Just my experiences. If you want to pay $0.44 per round then by all means go for it. Much better ammo can be had for $0.32 per round or so like Federal XM193.

[Oh Shoot]

...Roughly 4 failure to feeds prior to that. It has 80 rounds through it at present - all from the same wonderful box. I will be getting some 5.56 NATO to put through it soon... should fix whatever shortcomings the weapon has left!!

Well, FTF's might indicate an intermittent prob with gun rather than ammo. And if anything, I'd posit that .223 should be slightly more forgiving in a 5.56 chamber than 5.56 itself.

Of course, it COULD be a bad run of ammo, but would think it would be visibly out of spec somehow if so.

Of course², a new gun needs shootin' for a while.

- OS

[Kenstaroni]

Never had a problem with Federal before... .45 ACP, .40, 9 mm, .22 LR... all ran just fine, NEVER a problem with the big rounds.

As far as Wolf goes, does the lacquered steel turn into trouble when it comes to extracting the spent rounds? I've seen the zinc plated Brown Bear and thought that might be less hastle.

All other Walmart Federal ammo has been great. I've shot all the pistol rounds and the 12ga shotgun shells. Everything has been 100%. Only the .223 has given me issues.

The Brown Bear is laquer coated. In my DI guns it ran great as long as I cleaned the chamber out about every 200 rounds. My Ruger SR556 and other piston guns didn't like it at all. The Ruger would shoot it fine as long as you kept steadily feeding it mags, but if you let it cool for 5 minutes the first round would stick. I have never had this problem with polymer coated ammo like Wolf and Tula, and Silver Bear is fine too. The laquer will heat up and stick to the chamber. The rounds feed smoothly, but in tight chambers they will stick. My Smith and Wesson M&P15 ran it just fine and a custom built Predator Custom Shop gun ran Brown Bear just fine.

I run 100% Wolf through a couple rifles like my MSAR STG556. It loves the stuff and shoots groups that I'm happy with as it is just a plinking gun for me.

[Kenstaroni]

What brand of AR 15 do you have anyway?

[Oh Shoot]

I'm not saying every box is going to have a bad one....or three. Me and some buddies go shooting 3-4 times per year and each time they stop at Wally World and pick up 2-3 boxes of .223 to run through one of my AR's. Every time we have had at least one, and up to 5-6 failures to fire per box with that ammo. No other ammo has ever had a problem, even Wolf, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, and Tula....

Hmm, ain't you the feller that sold me a bunch of Tula and Brown Bear that didn't run well in two of your AR's?

Seems the solution is to get a Mini 14!

- OS

[Kenstaroni]

The ammo shoots quite nicely, OS. I was splitting flat coke cans into two pieces from 50 yards - good stuff!!

As far as I know, the round was normal when loaded. I had fired approximately 70 rounds through the weapon before this one. Roughly 4 failure to feeds prior to that. It has 80 rounds through it at present - all from the same wonderful box. I will be getting some 5.56 NATO to put through it soon... should fix whatever shortcomings the weapon has left!!

Make sure the rifle is chambered in 5.56 before shooting 5.56 through it. If it's .223 only then only shoot .223. Get some PMC Bronze...that's the best "cheap" brass ammo out there in my opinion.

[Kenstaroni]

Hmm, ain't you the feller that sold me a bunch of Tula and Brown Bear that didn't run well in two of your AR's?

Seems the solution is to get a Mini 14!

- OS

Ha ha, yeah the Ruger...lol That thing was the pickeist AR I've ever had....lol Sticky chamber with Brown Bear, and wouldn't cycle Tula for some reason. Only gun that has had those problems. All DI guns I've had have had no problem with the steel stuff.

[Glock30]

Doublestar STAR-15

[Rightwinger]

Since I can't see the cannellure of the bullet and the pic makes it look like the shoulder is set back a bit, I'm going with a load that got a bit to much pressure seating the bullet. That will cause the round to feed funny as it's stripped off the mag head. The other guys beat me to it but I was hoping you had not rodded it out. That mark on the bullet looked like scratches I've seen on muzzle loader rounds I've pushed out before at the end of a season though.

My books are out in the shop but just holding it next to another cartridge should tell you a bit if that shoulder is bulging. Throw the calipers to it though and see. If that was the only bad round, chaulk it up to mass production, pull the bullet, dump the powder and neutralize the primer with some WD40 and move on. If it happens with some other rounds and different makes you'll have to start thinking burr on the feed ramp or issues with the lips of a magazine making the rounds dive.

[mikegideon]

I'm sitting here looking at a .223 round that was a failure to feed in my Mini. It dinged the case up pretty bad without jamming up the gun.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Have only run a few hundred rounds thru the MSAR 556. Still isn't broke in good. Been too busy pistol shootin, haven't lately had time to shoot rifle and pistol at brief range visits.

Have fed it mostly PMC and WW Fed value pak so far. A little Winchester and Hornady. Have stocked up several other brands, just haven't got around to shoot much of it so far. The PMC seems a little hotter than the Fed value pak.

Every round has fed fine and gone bang except one round. That one round managed to feed so funny it bent the case at a 90 degree angle at the shoulder, and spilled some powder out the gaping rip in the side of the cartridge.

Have seen .22 semi's occasionally similarly mutilate .22 LR rounds when they feed real bad, but it was more impressive to see the mutilated .223.

For feeding and firing so smooth all the other times, was interesting to see the cartridge get so turned around good enough to get bent double. The spring is pretty strong on the bolt. It wouldn't be a good idea to drop the bolt with a finger in there.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Lester Weevils

[tntnixon]

I had something similar happen with Federal the first time I loaded my M&P-15. It was not an ammo issue, it was a me issue. I had not slammed the magazine in well enough, and the cartridge came out at an angle mauling the cartridge and locking up my bolt. AR's can be a bit unforgiving with bad technique (one of the few drawbacks of the system).

[Guest ls2tiger]

Let me ask a question that hasn't been asked. Did you inspect the magazine after the failier? A bad magazine can begin to feed the round before the bolt begins to move forward. In some cases the front of the round can ride up into the chamber and bend as the bolt comes forward completing the opperation. Just food for thought from a old grunt.

[Glock30]

I did. The magazine appears to be normal. For the record, all of my magazines were made by C Products, LLC with green followers.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I wouldn't worry about it unless it happens again or more often then I would take a serious look at it. Whenever I have a new or used gun with new mags I take a piece of tape and number each mag. I shoot as normal but if I have any abnormalities I note the mag number. If the same mag causes me more than one problem it goes into the range/training bag or is marked with paint so it will never be used for anything critical. Also, having a known bad mag for training helps you practice immediate action drills during training so you don't have a brain fart when something critical is going on.

Are your C Products mags the stainless ones or aluminum? Reason I ask is steel mags tend to be a bit on the small size and can flop around inside the magwell. Most times it doesn't cause a problem but when tolerances stack it can cause problems. Even though everything is within spec the specs can stack. .002" can stack up to a lot when you take into consideration all the parts used to make a firearm.

One more thing, Federal brass tends to be a bit on the soft side. That is the reason most serious reloaders don't use it. Not saying it caused it but it probably accounted for the amount of damage to the round. I try to stay with RP and Winchester loaded rounds. In all honesty the RP rounds tend to be cheaper than anything else and always go bang and shoot just as well in all my guns. Or at least they did the last tie I had to buy some.

Dolomite