And the moon isn't even full.

[Guest gcrookston]

...I'm looking for a model 36 or 49 in nickel.... 2", diamond grips... original box and papers would be nice, but not a deal killer... :D ya, I know... I'm a crazy customer... Bill, but at least I know what I want and I won't ask you to finance it.

a few years back I was working a gunshow at the superdome (before katrina), and we had a gang banger with some of his friends finger and then want to buy a glock we had on the table. Our policy was pre-pay before we did the backround check. He peeled off 4 bills from a big wad, completed the yellowsheet, left his driver's lics and said he'd be back in a few minutes after we'd got approval. I called it in. After giving all the info, she put me on hold then came back and asked "where are you" and I told her, she said "no, where exactly are you?" and I told her. She said "we are sending someone, don't let him leave." Of course, he was already gone. In about 5 minutes we had several of New Orleans' finest at our table.

Don't know what the guy did, but he never came back for his partial refund (we charged $50.00 for a failed transfer, refunded upon a successful appeal).

[Mike.357]

Couple things I do not understand.

Why do gunshops charge more for a failed background? does it cost more to process a failure? I failed one once but it was overturned on appeal.

Frank not to tell you your business but how can you legally keep some guys money like that? I am curious how that works. Did he know beforehand about that part of your deal?

[Guest gcrookston]

Mike,

It doesn't cost anything but time (and time is money), to process a background check. Our problem when I was living in Louisiana was with the type of customers we were attracting with the type of arms we sold. We were running about a 40% reject rate on the low-end "loot and shoot" side, so we decided to start collecting money up front and charging the applicants a "refundable fee". This was totally arbitrary on our part, but it cut way down on the folks applying to buy the low end side of our inventory, hence reducing our time involved.

[Mike.357]

I was told on the last gun I bought which BTW was the one I was initially denied on that collecting the money up front was the legal and proper way to do a transfer. And that shop too had a policy for a higher fee for a denial. I was not charged that fee as I told them what was going on and what might happen before I purchased. Of course I was approved a week later.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

I have a question since you brought up the gunshow....I was wondering how the buying process works at gunshows? is it alot like buying one from a gun shop? or is it different? If so, how is it different?

[Guest triggertime]

There's no difference unless its a private sale.

[Marswolf]

I think it is obviously correct to collect the gun cost plus TFA before submitting a transfer. Otherwise you could do a transfer and then the buyer finds out he can't pay.

But Mike, I'm with you about a policy of not giving the guy his money back on the device/gun if it doesn't go through. I'll go with a few bucks for the shop owner's time. But the whole device cost????? Especially if not a special order, I don't think so. Not unless the gun/device is destroyed. Sounds like both an excessive a charge to me and also of questionable legality (explained below). But maybe I'm missing some charge on a NFA device I don't know about? (I don't think so after talking to a couple of BATFE buddies in Bristol and Richmond.)

The crime aspect, as I understand it, is the government's problem, not the dealer's. The dealer is not in a position to determine that a crime has been committed. Plus the dealer is in a legally questionable position about determining that someone did something committing a crime. The BATFE check system does not relay that sort of information. They just say "no." Eventually, that would be determined, if necessary, by the courts. Certainly that can not be determined, under any circumstances by the dealer. The dealer should be able to recoup any restocking fee, if any, plus a "reasonable fee" for his trouble. I suspect collecting the entire cost of the device puts the dealer in an untenable legal position. At least that is how I see it, but I don't play a lawyer on TV and only spent untold hours in the law library when an engineering student at UT. Let's put it this way, based on experience, if I was such an imaginary lawyer, I'd tell my client/dealer to not do that but charge a set fee instead.

I think Top Notch's policy was that they charged a posted $30 plus transfer cost and returned the rest of the money on a denied transfer item. The owner was an accountant who was very careful about the law. I think that's reasonable and defensible. But the entire cost? I don't think so.

[Mike.357]

Mar's the time I was denied I had exlained my situation to Mike and my being leery of attempting to buy the firearm because of the 30 dollar denial fee. He assured me because of my situation and his belief that I would not ultimately be denied that they would only hold me to the $10 fee. He was very helpful with my appeal, instantly providing me with paperwork to fill out and right then faxing it in. Does every gunshop do this to assist a denied purchaser?

I miss that place. It was not the newest building or freshest carpet and paint but it was always enjoyable to go there.

The fear of being ripped off by a retailer is why on major purchases I always initially put it on a credit card. That way if something shady happens you have some recourse. Especially if the net result is not leaving with the purchase.

As an off topic note, how about them Packers? Wow they look good in the snow.

[The Rabbi]

I have generally only charged the $10 that TBI charges me for denied transactions.

But then again I have only had about 7, 3 overturned on appeal, since I opened. If I start getting a bunch then I will have to re-examine my policy.

With some limited exceptions, people ought to know whether they can buy or not.

[Guest gcrookston]

Rabbi, I agree with you... folks who've done bad things generally understand they can't buy, but the dumb ones will try to buy...