Thinking Of Switching To A Revolver For EDC

[krunchnik]

Hey fellas,any one here ever feel under gunned by carrying a 5 shot or 6 shot revolver instead of a Semi-Auto.I am considering going to a 2 or 3 inch barrel revolver in either a .38 Special or .357 Mag for my daily carry pistol.I guess I am getting tired of having to always have spare mags,is the pistol going to work right just when I need it,and the weight of the whole darn rig is also becoming bothersome.I have been wearing a Taurus 85 in a Blackhawk holster for the last day or 2 and it sure is a lot easier on the waist and ribs than my EMP.Not to mention I have kept a Bianchi Speed Strip in my off side pocket with extra rounds and barely notice its there.What say the collective,has anyone else switched from the Semi-Auto scene to the wheelgun .I am loaded with 129gr Federal Hydra Shock in +p.I think it would be a fairly decent BG round,of coarse I could be wrong also.

This is the little jewel I am talking about,complete with porting,shoots darn nice.

[mikegideon]

I watched a Chuck Norris movie last night that was made in the early '80's. I don't think i saw one semiauto in the whole movie. All wheel guns.

[Will Carry]

I have two wheel guns that I carry. A Taurus M85UL with a CT grip and a Smith and Wesson model 36 with a 3 inch barrel. I don't feel under armed at all, OK maybe just a little, but it's unfounded fear. Both of these guns are fast on the draw and deadly accurate at 21 feet. There is nothing wrong with carrying a 5-shot revolver for self defence. The bad guys will not notice.

Is that a pimped out Taurus M-85? Nice!

[deerslayer]

What type holster do you use for the EMP? I can't imagine a revolver being more comfortable than an EMP. I have a bad habit of getting lazy and throwing a +P-stoked J-frame in my pocket, but I feel undergunned when I do so. Underpowered (not that my 9mm EMP is a hand cannon), can't hit anything with it, hate the trigger. I pull the trigger five times and fire three shots (this is what happens when you shoot Glocks and 1911s from reset). My new EMP will help end this J-frame habit. I don't like loud guns (ok, louder guns), so the ported barrel would be out for me.

[krunchnik]

What type holster do you use for the EMP? I can't imagine a revolver being more comfortable than an EMP. I have a bad habit of getting lazy and throwing a +P-stoked J-frame in my pocket, but I feel undergunned when I do so. Underpowered (not that my 9mm EMP is a hand cannon), can't hit anything with it, hate the trigger. I pull the trigger five times and fire three shots (this is what happens when you shoot Glocks and 1911s from reset). My new EMP will help end this J-frame habit. I don't like loud guns (ok, louder guns), so the ported barrel would be out for me.

I wear it in a Crossbreed Supertuck,just getting a little tired of my side hurting all the time,seems like no matter what holster I use I get tired of it.I wear OWB with a Desantis Mini Slide,also have used a MTAC for awhile.

[Guest 270win]

I carry a smith and wesson 642 Airweight usually in an uncle mike's pocket holster. I sometimes use a leather ankle holster when wearing then dress slacks for conferences/work type meetings. I had it sent off to S&W for an action/trigger job and i have been real happy with it. I did put my own Hogue rubber grips on it...I believe a lot of the S&W's revolvers have them on...I just had to remove the grip screw and the old grips to slip these on. I put Winchester SXT 130-135 +P ammo in it. The load is for snub nosed revolvers....it's a good load like the Speer Gold Dot 135 +P. I have a speed strip that I take with me when I travel but I don't carry it. I figure five is more than enough.

[krunchnik]

I have two wheel guns that I carry. A Taurus M85UL with a CT grip and a Smith and Wesson model 36 with a 3 inch barrel. I don't feel under armed at all, OK maybe just a little, but it's unfounded fear. Both of these guns are fast on the draw and deadly accurate at 21 feet. There is nothing wrong with carrying a 5-shot revolver for self defence. The bad guys will not notice.

Is that a pimped out Taurus M-85? Nice!

Yeh,its one of the last year models with the gold trigger and hammer,its a full stainless frame which makes it a little easier to control.

[Will Carry]

Razorback,

I was gonna say that most of the time I don't carry a speed loader or any extra ammo. I ain't very fast reloading and in a gun fight I'd be shaking to much to even try. I'll fire five and run like hell or pistol whip him.

One of the things that convinced me to carry a snubby was the Crimson Trace laser grips. It makes a world of difference at the range and I feel that it gives me a little edge. My Smith and Wesson Chief's Special has a three in barrel and point shoots well.

I like the old school grips too.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Will Carry

[Erik88]

I have been having issues with my p238 so I picked up a Ruger LCR last week. I lost 2 bullets in doing so but at least now I know my gun will be far less likely to malfunction than my Sig. I do love the simplicity of a wheel gun. The LCR is by no means a range gun but it's very concealable and light.

[Mike]

I would only carry one as a backup.

After the Tom Givens revolver class, It is apparent that revolvers are not an ideal fighting weapon. They are ammunition sensitive(POA/POI), not reliable, low capacity, slow to reload, difficult to shoot, and all of their functions require fine motor skills to use.

I still carry a j-frame, but it is only a backup gun.

-Mike

[Will Carry]

I would not even think to argue with Tom Givens about handguns or self defense. I envy you for being able to get training from Tom. The snubby is considered a good back up gun but many LEO carry them off duty too. I'm not sure why Tom would call a revolver ammuntition sensitive and unreliable but I'll agree with the rest. A concealed handgun is a compromise at best. I carry a snubby and don't feel underarmed.

POSA Video Network at Officer.com -- Defensive Snub Revolver

Edited August 2, 2010 by Will Carry

[MphsTiger1981]

Hey fellas,any one here ever feel under gunned by carrying a 5 shot or 6 shot revolver instead of a Semi-Auto.I am considering going to a 2 or 3 inch barrel revolver in either a .38 Special or .357 Mag for my daily carry pistol.I guess I am getting tired of having to always have spare mags,is the pistol going to work right just when I need it,and the weight of the whole darn rig is also becoming bothersome.I have been wearing a Taurus 85 in a Blackhawk holster for the last day or 2 and it sure is a lot easier on the waist and ribs than my EMP.Not to mention I have kept a Bianchi Speed Strip in my off side pocket with extra rounds and barely notice its there.What say the collective,has anyone else switched from the Semi-Auto scene to the wheelgun .I am loaded with 129gr Federal Hydra Shock in +p.I think it would be a fairly decent BG round,of coarse I could be wrong also."

Krunchnik,

I recently went with the revolver for my main EDC for about six months, but I always felt under-gunned. Traded it for a nice used Glock 19. I wish I had kept the revolver as a pocket gun but I just never felt comfortable with it as my main EDC. This is sort of ironic for me because when I first went through the academy for the Sheriff's department that's all we were allowed to carry were wheel guns in .38 caliber. We eventually transitioned over to the semi-autos, but I don't think I ever shot the Glock as well as I shot the revolver. I realize much of this was all in my head, but having confidence in the gun is a large part of the "comforting" part of the equation. If you can shoot fast and shoot accurately with it, and you believe you can defend yourself in a SHTF situation with it, then that's all that matters.

[hipower]

Krunchnik, that's one sweet looking Taurus. I have a Model 85 Ultralite and carry it some in slacks or jacket pocket. It does, to me anyway, feel different and requires a little getting used to the lite feel after the series of small and midsize autoloaders of the last ten years or so. But feel underarmed? No.

By the way, how does that 85 shoot? I didn't know it could be had with a ported barrel. I had a Taurus 450SC(? not sure of the model number) a few years back with a ported barrel. A real hand cannon. Five rounds of 45LC in a 2 inch barrel. The muzzle blast would part your hair for you. After about 20 rounds I sold it. Just not for me.

Edited August 1, 2010 by hipower

[Trekbike]

My EDC is a 642 with speedstrips and don't feel undergunned when I'm going about my normal routine. Notice I said my normal routine. If for some reason I was planning to go into a situation that increased the likelyhood of running into trouble several times over, I would consider switching to my M&P 40. The thing is I don't make a habit of getting myself into those higher alert situations.

I guess that makes me have a qualified comfort level with my snub. Regardless of what everyone here tells you, follow your gut. I've got a feeling you have already decided to make the switch.

[krunchnik]

Krunchnik, that's one sweet looking Taurus. I have a Model 85 Ultralite and carry it some in slacks or jacket pocket. It does, to me anyway, feel different and requires a little getting used to the lite feel after the series of small and midsize autoloaders of the last ten years or so. But feel underarmed? No.

By the way, how does that 85 shoot? I didn't know it could be had with a ported barrel. I had a Taurus 450SC(? not sure of the model number) a few years back with a ported barrel. A real hand cannon. Five rounds of 45LC in a 2 inch barrel. The muzzle blast would part your hair for you. After about 20 rounds I sold it. Just not for me.

It actually shoots pretty nice,I was a little wary at first but not to worry,all rounds at 21 foot go where they are supposed to.I actually disliked shooting an Airweight I had,but this one is actually kinda fun.

[Mike]

I would not even think to argue with Tom Givens about handguns or self defense. I envy you for being able to get training from Tom. The snubby is considered a good back up gun but many LEO carry them off duty too. I'm not sure why Tom would call a revolver ammuntition sensitive and unreliable but I'll agree with the rest. A concealed handgun is a compromise at best. I carry a snubby and don't feel underarmed. But I'm also 6'3" 220lbs and have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do (1975). I'm used to getting my ass kicked.

POSA Video Network at Officer.com -- Defensive Snub Revolver

Ammunition sensitive was only in regards to point of aim point of impact. To illustrate this he was having us shoot several different loads out of our pistols. Some were spot on. Some were off of point of aim by 4-6".

Unreliable in the sense that everything inside the revolver is timed like a Swiss watch. One little thing goes wrong and the system fails. Also when loading, if there is a round with a high primer or bent rim it will Jam the cylinder. They are also very susceptible to bullet jump. When extracting if a grain of sand or unburnt powder gets under the extractor it will also keep the cylinder from closing.

Mike

Edited August 2, 2010 by Mike

[eastenn]

I've got an airweight and I love mine. I was testing my accuracy with it a couple days ago. I was shooting at a 1'x1' steel target 50 yards out and my first 2 shots were a little high, the next 3 shots hit the target with me aiming low center on the target. If you have an airweight I would suggest dry-firing it 500 times or so. After that plus the 200 or so rounds I've shot through mine has left me with a real nice trigger.

[Guest Straight Shooter]

LORD LORD have mercy.

Ive been EDC'ing an "inferior weapon" all this time, with my 3" SP101.

Even though it shoots dead on with 125gr. JHP's and a couple others, its apparently "ammo sensitive".

Even though its fired every one of the several hundred rounds its fired 100% reliably, its "not reliable".

even though, with my Comp 1 speedloaders, its only 2-3 seconds slower for me to reload than my semi's, its "slow to reload".

Even though I consistently hit what I aim at, its "difficult to shoot". And, I never knew I was using fine motor skills all these past 25+ years Ive been shooting revolvers.

Were I attending that class, and IF the "INSTRUCTOR", no matter who he is or what his bona fides were,said this,Idemand a refund of my money,and immediately leave to premises.

This is complete malarky,imo.

Not to disparage Mike's comments, Ill just say this. ANY weapon I decide to carry, has been thouroghly vetted by me personally, as one that has been established as RELIABLE, ACCURATE WITH THE AMMO CHOSEN TO USE, and one that I have PRACTICED with enough to be secure in the fact that I will be competent and proficient with it should the need arise to defend myself, or others. To say revolvers havent met this need for several decades is ludicrous.

Some of younger members on here should realize that in order to form valid opinions of what is "good or bad" in the world of guns,it takes years of shooting, many thousands of rounds fired, and experiance with a great number of different weapons. Ive NEVER taken just one mans word on whats good or bad, be it on guns, whiskey or women, or anything else. I SEE FOR MYSELF. I would suggest some of yall do the same.

Now....argue all you want.

[greenego]

I have carried an Ruger SP101 Revolver 5 shot and a KAHR PM9 6 shot semi auto. I am not in law enforcement or do things that would normally put me in harms way. So my question is when would i need more than 5 shots? The biggest advantage I see with a semi-auto is reloading and the PM9 is lighter than the SP101. As far as what the experts say check out this site.

SnubTraining.com

[Trekbike]

Ammunition sensitive was only in regards to point of aim point of impact. To illustrate this he was having us shoot several different loads out of our pistols. Some were spot on. Some were off of point of aim by 4-6".

Unreliable in the sense that everything inside the revolver is timed like a Swiss watch. One little thing goes wrong and the system fails. Also when loading, if there is a round with a high primer or bent rim it will Jam the cylinder. They are also very susceptible to bullet jump. When extracting if a grain of sand or unborn powder gets under the extractor it will also keep the cylinder from closing.

Mike

My intent is also not to argue with Mr. Givens though I would like to comment on some of his points.

• "Ammo sensitivity POA/POI" - yes this is a correct statement with some ammo, but this would already be known with practice and therefore already dealt with.
  
• "One little thing goes wrong and the system fails" - same thing could be said with semi's
  
• "high primer/bent rim" - one should check their carry ammo closely for any defects. This complaint is BS.
  
• "suspectable to bullet jump" - correct with some ammo but this would have already been noticed and caught when testing their carry ammo.
  
• "extractor closing" - I guess that might occur but see it as unlikely. Hopefully the shooter has already done his job with the first 5 down the pipe.
  

Regarding some of Mr. Given's comments, I think he is grasping at straws, but that's just me. I don't get paid to instruct firearm classes and he does.

[Guest Straight Shooter]

NONE of the aforementioned maladies seemed to concern Clint Smith, Massad Ayoob, Jeff Cooper, Jim Cirillo, and the dozens of other gunmen who use and even espouse the revolver as a viable and effective weapon. The key to it, like all other weapons , is training and practice. Any firearm can break. Ive seen a 1911 literally fly apart into many pieces. Most semi's wont run on deformed ammo either. Also, the semi is dependent on good mags to run right. So, its 6 of one, half dozen of another, in my book. Any shottist takes the time to train, and check for these things before using them to defend ones self and others. I would hope so, anyway.

[eapking]

NONE of the aforementioned maladies seemed to concern Clint Smith, Massad Ayoob, Jeff Cooper, Jim Cirillo, and the dozens of other gunmen who use and even espouse the revolver as a viable and effective weapon. The key to it, like all other weapons , is training and practice. Any firearm can break. Ive seen a 1911 literally fly apart into many pieces. Most semi's wont run on deformed ammo either. Also, the semi is dependent on good mags to run right. So, its 6 of one, half dozen of another, in my book. Any shottist takes the time to train, and check for these things before using them to defend ones self and others. I would hope so, anyway.

+1. Back to the OP...I'd recommend a .357 magnum. That way you can use 3 different types of ammo.

[Mike]

LORD LORD have mercy.

Ive been EDC'ing an "inferior weapon" all this time, with my 3" SP101.

Even though it shoots dead on with 125gr. JHP's and a couple others, its apparently "ammo sensitive".

Even though its fired every one of the several hundred rounds its fired 100% reliably, its "not reliable".

even though, with my Comp 1 speedloaders, its only 2-3 seconds slower for me to reload than my semi's, its "slow to reload".

Even though I consistently hit what I aim at, its "difficult to shoot". And, I never knew I was using fine motor skills all these past 25+ years Ive been shooting revolvers.

Were I attending that class, and IF the "INSTRUCTOR", no matter who he is or what his bona fides were,said this,Idemand a refund of my money,and immediately leave to premises.

This is complete malarky,imo.

Not to disparage Mike's comments, Ill just say this. ANY weapon I decide to carry, has been thouroghly vetted by me personally, as one that has been established as RELIABLE, ACCURATE WITH THE AMMO CHOSEN TO USE, and one that I have PRACTICED with enough to be secure in the fact that I will be competent and proficient with it should the need arise to defend myself, or others. To say revolvers havent met this need for several decades is ludicrous.

Some of younger members on here should realize that in order to form valid opinions of what is "good or bad" in the world of guns,it takes years of shooting, many thousands of rounds fired, and experiance with a great number of different weapons. Ive NEVER taken just one mans word on whats good or bad, be it on guns, whiskey or women, or anything else. I SEE FOR MYSELF. I would suggest some of yall do the same.

Now....argue all you want.

My intent is also not to argue with Mr. Givens though I would like to comment on some of his points.

• "Ammo sensitivity POA/POI" - yes this is a correct statement with some ammo, but this would already be known with practice and therefore already dealt with.
  
• "One little thing goes wrong and the system fails" - same thing could be said with semi's
  
• "high primer/bent rim" - one should check their carry ammo closely for any defects. This complaint is BS.
  
• "suspectable to bullet jump" - correct with some ammo but this would have already been noticed and caught when testing their carry ammo.
  
• "extractor closing" - I guess that might occur but see it as unlikely. Hopefully the shooter has already done his job with the first 5 down the pipe.
  

Regarding some of Mr. Given's comments, I think he is grasping at straws, but that's just me. I don't get paid to instruct firearm classes and he does.

I have carried an Ruger SP101 Revolver 5 shot and a KAHR PM9 6 shot semi auto. I am not in law enforcement or do things that would normally put me in harms way. So my question is when would i need more than 5 shots? The biggest advantage I see with a semi-auto is reloading and the PM9 is lighter than the SP101. As far as what the experts say check out this site.

SnubTraining.com

It appears that I struck a nerve. I never said the revolver was inferior. I said less than ideal.

These comments with the exception of the ammunition sensitivity, which I did experience with several types of ammunition, were my own conclusion after firing about 450-500 rounds in the course of a day..

True, you might never have an issue with ammo, provided you vetted yours before an incident. I only brought it up because most people don't vet their ammo. Most simply buy what the guy at the counter gives them and put it into service. So it is an issue, one that is easily avoidable, but an issue none the less.

Reliability, I had my revolver lock up twice. Once when I has a high primer and once when i had the moon clip clipped around the base of the cartridge slightly above the groove. Both were operator error. But, operator error can happen in a shtf situation too. As far as malfunctions, semi's are a lot easier to fix than revolvers. they often only require a tap rack to clear and get back in the fight. Revolvers require both time and often tools to fix. both are not going to be on your side in a fight.

Bullet jump does happen, even in factory loaded ammo. It just takes one round to lock the cylinder into the frame. You cannot even open the cylinder to clear the jam. you have to hammer the bullet back into the case to release the cylinder.

As far as reloads go, they are slow. 2-3 seconds in a fight is an eternity. It won't happen. So don't count on it.

Capacity.. Why would you need more than 5 or 6 rounds? Um, more than one bad guy? It is occurring more and more frequently. 2-3 guys jumping people, killing them for what is in their pockets. Why take a chance on hoping it will only be one person?

Fine motor skills. Yes, everything you do with a revolver is using fine motor skills. From the 1/2" trigger pull to manipulating the cylinder release, dumping empties and reloading it is all fine motor controls believe it or not.

Were I attending that class, and IF the "INSTRUCTOR", no matter who he is or what his bona fides were,said this,Idemand a refund of my money,and immediately leave to premises.

This is complete malarky,imo.

Sorry you feel that way.

Not to disparage Mike's comments, Ill just say this. ANY weapon I decide to carry, has been thouroghly vetted by me personally, as one that has been established as RELIABLE, ACCURATE WITH THE AMMO CHOSEN TO USE, and one that I have PRACTICED with enough to be secure in the fact that I will be competent and proficient with it should the need arise to defend myself, or others. To say revolvers havent met this need for several decades is ludicrous.

That is good, you have prevented most problems from coming up at a bad time. Revolvers are not ineffective. they will take care of a problem, but they do not fit every situation.

I would highly recommend you guys check out a course, it doesn't have to be Tom's. Any trigger time is better than nothing. The more you get to manipulate and shoot the more you will be prepared. 25 years of shooting is great, but just remember, there are always new ideas and techniques. Skills do fade over time. Practice often.

Respectfully,

Mike

[Guest 270win]

I shoot quite a bit and will have to give the revolver a little bit of edge in the reliability dept over an autopistol. I've only had problems with one self defense revolver(very old)...timing problems....VS SEVERAL centerfire autopistols having jamming problems due to everything from being dirty to mag problems....even a Glock (cheap aftermarket mag) and Sig (i'm assuming dirty). An avg person will not think to stand there in front of a criminal and try to fix an autopistol or revolver....the best thing to do is use the handgun as a rock, club, or ditch it and run.

If you can't get your problem solved with five....you better have a shotgun or rifle....most criminals aren't sticking around once shooting starts...they're going to run too.

Jim Cirillo used Smith Wesson 4 inch revolvers on NYPD stakeout squad....that guy was pretty good dealing with bad guys....he taught Mas Ayoob. The avg person can be trained for self defense quicker with a revolver than an autopistol....to many people lack the gun know how to operate a semi auto....a lot of police and security honestly would benefit by carrying a revolver too...i've seen some poorly handle semi autos.

I do keep an autopistol 1911 as a house gun....it has been broken in with 300 rds before it has been trusted. Most revolvers don't need that many rounds to be trusted....my 1911 only uses 7rd mags..i'm looking at getting wilson 8 rounders...still not a lot of an advantage over a 5-6 round revolver....but if you are interested....S&W sells an N frame 8 shot 357 mag!

[Guest Jamie]

Capacity.. Why would you need more than 5 or 6 rounds? Um, more than one bad guy? It is occurring more and more frequently. 2-3 guys jumping people, killing them for what is in their pockets. Why take a chance on hoping it will only be one person?

If you've got more than 2 or 3 people to deal with, odds are very much not in your favor when it comes to getting all of them before one of them gets you, no matter how many rounds you have in your gun. Especially if they're all armed. And a 5 or 6 shot revolver will deal with those 2 or 3 about as well as anything else will, if you shoot straight.

The fact is, a group of 4 to 6 ( or more ) people simply will not just stand there and let you pick and choose who to shoot first, and they probably won't wait their turn for you to deal with 'em one at a time.

So in the end, it's not a lack of ammo that'll likely get you, it'll be a lack of time that does.

The same goes for reloading... if you have time to reload, then you probably have time to get yourself someplace else. Police and soldiers may have a need to reload while under fire, but the rest of us probably never will.

Besides... if it's that much of a worry, just carry a second gun. It'll give you 10 to 12 rounds to play with without reloading, and "system redundancy" to deal with any malfunctions that may come up.

As for the rest of the arguments against revolvers... well, I've been shooting and carrying guns for a long time now, and have never found one type all that much better than the other, in the end. Revolvers and autos both have their quirks, and if you're familiar with 'em and know what to expect, either will do the job just fine.

( BTW, unless your gun has adjustable sights, the sights are not always going to be dead on to where the bullet hits with certain loads/brands, whether it's an auto or a revolver. I've never found one or the other to be insensitive to that. )

J.