Tennessee Businesses Lobby for Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants

[Guest PeaShooter]

Tennessee businesses lobby for amnesty for illegal immigrants

Can You Say "Greed"

While Tennessee's lawmakers work to make state immigration policy as tough as Arizona's, Tennessee businesses and professional groups are lobbying to make life easier for immigrants.

This is why we have this issue now.

No work for illegals means, (so easy to figure out) No Illegals.

Now there is a solution we can get behind.

Business people in Rutherford County and Murfreesboro are again in the limelight about this issue.

Read the article here: Tennessee businesses lobby for amnesty for illegal immigrants | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

[Raoul]

And this is an example why neither party has had the cojones to hammer out a real Immigration bill.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Tennessee businesses? I saw one in that article,

and it reminds me of a trade union. Unless Tyson

is a Tennessee business, I'd have to say the TN

fishwrapper hit on another whopper. I'd also bet

a large majority of Tennesseans are with AZ on

this issue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ok, so it is Tyson and the Pork industry. Those want cheap labor to keep costs down. Some on the other side would claim this to be a "job a citizen won't do." Point is, it is a job a citizen won't do for the wages Tyson wants to pay...

[wjh2657]

Two things are causing the illegal immigration problem:

1. No person with any kind of ambition or self respect would want to live in Mexico as a Mexican (of Indian descent). Corruption and stratiified wealth "Class" problems make life there miserable.

2. American businessment and farmers hire and then transport Mexican workers here to make more money off cheap labor. If we have to have cheap labor to make a profit, then our marketing systems are inefficient.

Until those two problems are solved, the problem will persist.

Exactly the same drives as why we can't stop the drug traffic - Misery and Money! As long as people on both sides of the border can make big money out of it both problems will stay with us.

[strickj]

No work for illegals means, (so easy to figure out) No Illegals.

Now there is a solution we can get behind.

Incorrect. For one, there will always be work for illegals. Always!

Whether it's from employers that just don't care...or from forged documents.

For two, poverty in the US is far better then poverty in Mexico.

In a dream world where not one illegal was able to get employment here, they would still come in masses. Always.

Two things are causing the illegal immigration problem:

1. No person with any kind of ambition or self respect would want to live in Mexico as a Mexican (of Indian descent). Corruption and stratiified wealth "Class" problems make life there miserable.

2. American businessment and farmers hire and then transport Mexican workers here to make more money off cheap labor. If we have to have cheap labor to make a profit, then our marketing systems are inefficient.

Until those two problems are solved, the problem will persist.

Exactly the same drives as why we can't stop the drug traffic - Misery and Money! As long as people on both sides of the border can make big money out of it both problems will stay with us.

You're right that there are two reasons for illegal immigration, but are only correct on the first reason you state.

The second reason you state is just a mere product of the first.

The real second reason is because of the long and complicated process of becoming a US citizen.

Until these probelms are corrected, we will continue to have an illegal immigration problem.

To fix the first problem, Mexico will either have to become as good, or better then the US, or the US will have to become as bad or as worse then Mexico.

To correct the second problem, we will have to reform our immigration laws.

I know most republicans scream bloody murder over that, but...just think about it.

Are our immigration laws stopping the masses now? NO! And they never will.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not for any type of amnesty, in any way, shape, or form. I am for reforming the process so they can be here legally and pay taxes just like the rest of us.

I'm tired of them mooching off of me and never paying back into the 'pot'.

They're never going to leave. We're never going to be able to round them up and send them back. We're never going to be able to keep them out. Never.

What's left to do?

Edited August 14, 2010 by strickj

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Incorrect. For one, there will always be work for illegals. Always!

Whether it's from employers that just don't care...or from forged documents.

For two, poverty in the US is far better then poverty in Mexico.

In a dream world where not one illegal was able to get employment here, they would still come in masses. Always.

You're right that there are two reasons for illegal immigration, but are only correct on the first reason you state.

The second reason you state is just a mere product of the first.

The real second reason is because of the long and complicated process of becoming a US citizen.

Until these probelms are corrected, we will continue to have an illegal immigration problem.

To fix the first problem, Mexico will either have to become as good, or better then the US, or the US will have to become as bad or as worse then Mexico.

To correct the second problem, we will have to reform our immigration laws.

I know most republicans scream bloody murder over that, but...just think about it.

Are our immigration laws stopping the masses now? NO! And they never will.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not for any type of amnesty, in any way, shape, or form. I am for reforming the process so they can be here legally and pay taxes just like the rest of us.

I'm tired of them mooching off of me and never paying back into the 'pot'.

They're never going to leave. We're never going to be able to round them up and send them back. We're never going to be able to keep them out. Never.

What's left to do?

Our laws are just fine concerning immigration. Tell all those who still come into

this country, legally, that what they did was for nothing. You could be right, strickj.

Until we do something about all those illegals bringing drugs across the border,

and other types of crime, you may be right. I don't think opening the floodgates

and allowing everyone in from Mexico will help. If these people want to get in, not

pay taxes, and send their money back home, for whatever reason, I guess we'll have

to just sit back and watch. That's not right, either.

Just because we haven't dealt with this problem very well in the past doesn't mean

we shouldn't be, now. We have laws on the books that can deal with this problem

when we elect politicians that will do what they are supposed to.

Take away their incentive to come here and close that border and there will a decrease

overnight. Just because it is a third world country doesn't mean we have to fix their

problems, although we probably will.

There may not be a magic fix to stop everything completely, but cowering and letting

criminals have their way isn't what I'd call comprehensive immigration reform, either.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Hmm. Come to think of it, wasnt the pork industry behind the blocking of enforcement of the 1986 immigration laws?

Yes, we have a lot of Tyson plants in Tennessee - I believe one is in Goodlettsville, by the interstate - used to be an Oscar Meyer plant...

Fact is, these groups believe to be competitive, they have to have low pay for their workers. Pay so low U.S. Citizens will not work for the pay offered. Sad.

[Defender]

Immigration reform HAS to include social welfare reform to be effective. Too many people are content to sit at home and draw welfare or unemployment instead of working. Not to say everybody is, but enough so that businesses have problems hiring workers who will really work. I think if we included this factor in immigration reform along with locking down the borders, and strictly controlling legal immigration, then there will be Americans that WILl work, if they have no alternative.

[Guest ls2tiger]

As a small businessman living and doing business in Tn I can say without a doubt that I want something done about illegal immigration in Tn. I'm in the construction industry and the impact of this has reduced wages to 1990's levels. I'm sick of it,it's not about a workforce it's about greed. Immigration laws are not the only laws broken here. Labor laws, Insurance laws, Tax laws you name it and I can show you where my cohorts are breaking them.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Immigration reform HAS to include social welfare reform to be effective. Too many people are content to sit at home and draw welfare or unemployment instead of working. Not to say everybody is, but enough so that businesses have problems hiring workers who will really work. I think if we included this factor in immigration reform along with locking down the borders, and strictly controlling legal immigration, then there will be Americans that WILl work, if they have no alternative.

Now you're talking!

And it doesn't have to be in one bill called Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

Zap a huge portion of welfare, Get serious about the drugs coming across the border

and enforce existing immigration laws. Also change this anchor baby garbage, and

it will get much better.

[Guest dad]

As a small businessman living and doing business in Tn I can say without a doubt that I want something done about illegal immigration in Tn. I'm in the construction industry and the impact of this has reduced wages to 1990's levels. I'm sick of it,it's not about a workforce it's about greed. Immigration laws are not the only laws broken here. Labor laws, Insurance laws, Tax laws you name it and I can show you where my cohorts are breaking them.

Here in California. They have over taken the roofing, plumbing, land scaping, and probably 90% of the construction business. Not to mention Taco Bell, McDonald's, Jack in the box, which were once high school kids jobs . To see a white employee in a fast food restaurant, is a attention getter! If you let it continue, your state(my future state) will end up like Calif.!

[Chief07]

Ok, so it is Tyson and the Pork industry. Those want cheap labor to keep costs down. Some on the other side would claim this to be a "job a citizen won't do." Point is, it is a job a citizen won't do for the wages Tyson wants to pay...

Exactly!

And what part of illegal don't they understand?

Another thing, with unemployment as high as it is, Americans will do any work for good wages

if the jobs wern't taken by illegal's who don't belong here in the first place.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Incorrect. For one, there will always be work for illegals. Always!

Whether it's from employers that just don't care...or from forged documents.

For two, poverty in the US is far better then poverty in Mexico.

In a dream world where not one illegal was able to get employment here, they would still come in masses. Always.

For one, no work = no illegals. Less work = less illegals. Some will still come here, but the point is true. For two, stop giving prizes to illegals for making it across the border. When they are caught nothing happens to most. Then there is legislation passed that helps them?! Its better than the county ****ing fair. Harsher measures and follow the immigration laws that are in place now.

You're right that there are two reasons for illegal immigration, but are only correct on the first reason you state.

The second reason you state is just a mere product of the first.

The real second reason is because of the long and complicated process of becoming a US citizen.

Until these probelms are corrected, we will continue to have an illegal immigration problem.

To fix the first problem, Mexico will either have to become as good, or better then the US, or the US will have to become as bad or as worse then Mexico.

To correct the second problem, we will have to reform our immigration laws.

I know most republicans scream bloody murder over that, but...just think about it.

Are our immigration laws stopping the masses now? NO! And they never will.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not for any type of amnesty, in any way, shape, or form. I am for reforming the process so they can be here legally and pay taxes just like the rest of us.

I'm tired of them mooching off of me and never paying back into the 'pot'.

They're never going to leave. We're never going to be able to round them up and send them back. We're never going to be able to keep them out. Never.

What's left to do?

So basically you are saying that we need to make immigration for illegal immigrants easier just so we don't have to see the word illegal in front of their title? That is retarded. Get rid of programs that HELP illegals and make them follow the proper laws that are IN PLACE NOW. We might not be able to send them back and keep them out but it can be damn unpleasant to be here. Right now its like going to ****ing Disneyland.

[Guest Drewsett]

If we were to institute a guest worker program where they could receive visas for the duration of their stay then the problem would be lessened IMHO. The newfound legality of their status would make it easier for employers to hire them, easier for the government to track them, and therefore easier for them to pay taxes on the income they receive from wages in the US. Since they are guest workers and not citizens then there would no longer be any stigma associated with them "stealing" entitlements or jobs because entitlements would be unavailable to them. Jobs are a bit of a double-edged sword. If you want to pay less than 5 bucks a pound for chicken, companies like Perdue and Tyson have to find a way to reduce their overhead costs. It's Microeconomics at its best. There isn't really much of a profit at all on chicken these days (I just finished a class where we looked at the operating costs of the processing plant in Shelbyville), the only way they make ANY money is on volume, and it's not very much money at all. The only way they can pay more wages is if they then raise prices, which will cause their competitors to just stay with their low prices and keep paying their low labor costs, and then the company with the higher labor cost and higher prices will go out of business. Or, everyone can raise their wages, and then everyone can raise their prices. Then customers scream bloody murder about "price gouging". It's a lose/lose situation for these types of businesses.

[Guest 270win]

Illegal aliens drive down wages for a lot of people who work in construction. They are paid in cash and hardly ever pay taxes, but they benefit off the taxes we pay, like our state medicaid/medicare, schools, hospitals, and other social programs. About the only taxes they do pay are sales taxes. Think of all the tax money that would be collected if you had AMERICANS on the PAYROLL and ILLEGALS back home? They don't get driver's licenses because they don't have the documents to get them, so they don't have car insurance, driving up our car insurance. What a mess to get in a car accident that is caused by an illegal alien with no DL and car insurance and can't speak a lick of English.

People claim they have to use illegals in construction and I claim that is garbage. I knew plenty of people back in Arkansas that were Americans that worked construction type jobs and still do if they could get work. One of the better brick laying companies in Little Rock area was always and I'm sure still is American, father son deal.

I've never seen prices drop now with the widespread use of using illegals and paying them cash, offshoring help desks to India, and factories to Mexico. Quality of work drops, customer service stinks, and we don't save much, but someone up top is sticking a lot more money in his pocket at laughing and grinning.

[Guest HvyMtl]

" They don't get driver's licenses because they don't have the documents to get them" Tennessee tried that, a few years back, with the idea they could track illegals and force them to keep insurance on their vehicles.

Instead, we had a mass influx of illegals, who abused the system, used their licenses to get more benefits, claim legitimacy, and still did not get auto insurance...

Now there are other states (PA, I believe is one) that still grant licenses to illegals. These states are now having a mass influx from Arizona...

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If we were to institute a guest worker program where they could receive visas for the duration of their stay then the problem would be lessened IMHO. The newfound legality of their status would make it easier for employers to hire them, easier for the government to track them, and therefore easier for them to pay taxes on the income they receive from wages in the US. Since they are guest workers and not citizens then there would no longer be any stigma associated with them "stealing" entitlements or jobs because entitlements would be unavailable to them. Jobs are a bit of a double-edged sword. If you want to pay less than 5 bucks a pound for chicken, companies like Perdue and Tyson have to find a way to reduce their overhead costs. It's Microeconomics at its best. There isn't really much of a profit at all on chicken these days (I just finished a class where we looked at the operating costs of the processing plant in Shelbyville), the only way they make ANY money is on volume, and it's not very much money at all. The only way they can pay more wages is if they then raise prices, which will cause their competitors to just stay with their low prices and keep paying their low labor costs, and then the company with the higher labor cost and higher prices will go out of business. Or, everyone can raise their wages, and then everyone can raise their prices. Then customers scream bloody murder about "price gouging". It's a lose/lose situation for these types of businesses.

Drewsett, did your class discuss anything to do with

the cost of government regulations and taxation

impacting business? I wish they would do more in

that area, because no one seems to understand

the true cost of government regulation, taxation and

it's burden.

When the politicians are forced into disclosing those

costs to the American public, you might see where

they are taking us. At least it would be a bigger

picture for us to see. The cost would blow your mind.

Any business professor, with a conscience, should

already be doing that. Otherwise, it's apples and

oranges and any decision made concerning immigration

would be a mistake.

[eapking]

Time to start boycotting some of these businesses.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Time to start boycotting some of these businesses.

Actually, boycotting congress, by throwing several

hundred out would be more effective.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest Drewsett]

Drewsett, did your class discuss anything to do with

the cost of government regulations and taxation

impacting business? I wish they would do more in

that area, because no one seems to understand

the true cost of government regulation, taxation and

it's burden.

When the politicians are forced into disclosing those

costs to the American public, you might see where

they are taking us. At least it would be a bigger

picture for us to see. The cost would blow your mind.

Any business professor, with a conscience, should

already be doing that. Otherwise, it's apples and

oranges and any decision made concerning immigration

would be a mistake.

Oh yes, yes we covered taxes. My professor is a libertarian like me. Unlike me he has a PhD in Economics. You tax something that you want to discourage. That's Econ 101. So when our government taxes income, they discourage existence and work. When the government taxes business, they discourage new business from forming.

That said, being a libertarian...a guest worker program would solve ALOT of problems.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'm really glad to hear that.

Don't we already have something like a guest worker program? I'll

admit to ignorance about some of this, but I meet a lot of foreigners

in restaurants and other places working, and in the country, legally.

Maybe they are here on student visas. I'll have to start asking.

I will say this, though. No guest worker until our own are more

employeed. Charity begins at home. I wouldn't do anything that makes

it easier on a foreigner to become an american citizen. The ones who

went through the process will say that loud enough already.

"You tax something that you want to discourage." I already like your prof.

That's the whole problem with the ones we elect. It's also the problem

with growth and capitalism, in general. Government

Edited August 21, 2010 by 6.8 AR

[Guest Drewsett]

There are student visas and H-1 visas that allow students to come study, and essential personnel that a company cannot find to hire in the US to come work (I would be willing to bet Strel is an H-1 visa). The programs are abused by either the students or workers overstaying the duration of the visa or the companies lying about not being able to find workers that can perform the job that are already US citizens.

Take the chicken processor as an example of how a guest worker program would help.

The consumer is not going to stand for a raise in prices. So instead of getting illegals in here to work the plants, a guest worker program gives them temporary visas through their employer that have to be reissued on a a preset basis (say 1-3 years). This means that these people no longer have to hide from the government, therefore they can (and will with the employers use of withholding) pay taxes.

The company gets its cheap labor, we as consumers get our cheap chicken. Everyone wins. The only argument that can be made against this really holds no water because you would be hard pressed to find an American with a HS diploma or GED that would be willing to do this labor for min wage or a little higher. It's dangerous. It's unsavory. Bring in people that ARE willing to do the job and it will get done, allowing Americans to specialize in jobs that require more education and/or citizenship.

This isn't charity, and it isn't granting them citizenship. It just allows them to have a legal status within the country so they no longer have to hide. They can report criminal acts against them because they don't worry about being deported. If they overstay the worker visa they are issued, then you have large fines for the company and deportation for the worker. Self-policing would see to it that this would rarely happen. It would also reduce the flow across the border because the guest worker program would quickly fill, and they could ship whatever portion of their income that they see fit back home (minus the taxes).

It's a win/win.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Your argument for it is good, Drewsett, but how would that work for a state

not on the border, like Tennessee? Allowing people to temporarily immigrate

to TN is an added cost. And if there are payroll taxes to be collected on these

migrant workers, which there should be if you or I have to, it just seems to

become unsustainable. The temporary workers, illegal ones, aren't paying

taxes, which is a disparity when you and I pay them. It's part of the cheap

labor problem.

If Tyson Foods wishes to pay less, they need to work on it themselves. If

you and I subsidize that business by allowing them to hire workers that

don't pay payroll taxes, we become the problem and will pay for it, in larger

government subsidized welfare, healthcare, housing and other ways.

The market should determine what Tyson Foods sell their products for, not

the government by subsidized workers. The marketplace will also determine

what Tyson Foods pays it's employees or they will innovate or fail.

I just don't like the government getting involved in my chicken sandwich and

we just can't afford any more government for a long time to come. Mexico

needs to tend to their own problems.

No one feels sorry for my situation, and I wouldn't expect them to. I pay my way.

I don't expect a dime from the government and I'm tired of paying for everyone

else and their problems. Altruism is a nonstarter and it has bankrupted us. It

needs to stop. The only thing I have against this class of people is that they are

illegal aliens and criminals. When they start abiding by the law and come in through

the front door immigration process, like so many others, I will welcome them with

open arms. We need to close our border, like most other countries, and take their

incentive away by market forces and penalize companies that break the law and hire

them. The problem we face is consistency with that blindfolded lady that holds the

scales: consistency in justice.

Also, our track record on policing illegals, I wonder how we would be able to police

another layer. I really appreciate your argument, but there are still too many factors

to consider before we do that.

It's obvious you are putting a lot of thought into this. It's good to see

Edited August 21, 2010 by 6.8 AR

[Guest Drewsett]

Your argument for it is good, Drewsett, but how would that work for a state

not on the border, like Tennessee? Allowing people to temporarily immigrate

to TN is an added cost. And if there are payroll taxes to be collected on these

migrant workers, which there should be if you or I have to, it just seems to

become unsustainable. The temporary workers, illegal ones, aren't paying

taxes, which is a disparity when you and I pay them. It's part of the cheap

labor problem.

If Tyson Foods wishes to pay less, they need to work on it themselves. If

you and I subsidize that business by allowing them to hire workers that

don't pay payroll taxes, we become the problem and will pay for it, in larger

government subsidized welfare, healthcare, housing and other ways.

The market should determine what Tyson Foods sell their products for, not

the government by subsidized workers. The marketplace will also determine

what Tyson Foods pays it's employees or they will innovate or fail.

I just don't like the government getting involved in my chicken sandwich and

we just can't afford any more government for a long time to come. Mexico

needs to tend to their own problems.

No one feels sorry for my situation, and I wouldn't expect them to. I pay my way.

I don't expect a dime from the government and I'm tired of paying for everyone

else and their problems. Altruism is a nonstarter and it has bankrupted us. It

needs to stop. The only thing I have against this class of people is that they are

illegal aliens and criminals. When they start abiding by the law and come in through

the front door immigration process, like so many others, I will welcome them with

open arms. We need to close our border, like most other countries, and take their

incentive away by market forces and penalize companies that break the law and hire

them. The problem we face is consistency with that blindfolded lady that holds the

scales: consistency in justice.

Also, our track record on policing illegals, I wonder how we would be able to police

another layer. I really appreciate your argument, but there are still too many factors

to consider before we do that.

It's obvious you are putting a lot of thought into this. It's good to see

Allowing people to temporarily immigrate is an added cost for them, not for us. At least not beyond the cost of the documentation, which, I think you would agree, is preferable to the cost of deportation and policing (assuming they ever actually do that) or the continued cost of doing nothing (which is a loss of revenues).

I would argue that opening the borders would be LESS government involvement, not more. Providing a legal route for people to come across the border, through legal offices and obtain papers that allow them to remain in the US as noncitizens, but legal noncitizens. It would be in these immigrants own best interest to self-regulate by using the guest worker program and therefore be legal instead of sticking with the status quo: paying thousands of dollars to criminal gangs that one must trust with your life to cross a border that is patrolled by dogs and armed men with no guarantee of success or even survival. Many immigrants DIE making the border crossing. They will keep coming, and unless we can better regulate their coming it will just get more and more expensive.

The guest worker program would mean that they WOULD be paying payroll taxes. The net benefit would be to the United States because we would gain cheaper labor and a new class of taxpaying noncitizens who contribute more money to society than they take, because they would be ineligible for entitlement programs as noncitizens.