Proof of Im

[Mike.357]

Strel, your wild meth scenario is not the same thing as the AZ law.

How is proving you are not doing something ( making meth ) the same as proving you are doing something? ( being here legally)

[JayC]

Maybe if you knew more than just making statements you would know that being in the country illegally is a violation of Federal Law not state law. As in most states your police officers are only able to enforce State, County, and Municipal laws/ordinances. That is what Arizona was trying to do make it a violation of state law so officers could enforce it. Yep I run into illegal immigrants a lot and can't do a damn thing to them for it not because I don't wish to prosecute but because I can't. Here in Davidson County the jail takes part in the 287g program if they determine someone is illegal they hold for ICE. But it is up to ICE to make sure they are deported.

The 287g program has been around since late 1996... There are 2 law enforcement agencies in TN who have signed up for that program... Davidson County Sheriff Office in Feb of 2007, and TDOS in Aug of 2008.

Now how exactly is it that we only have 2 law enforcement agencies signed up for this program out of 150-200+ agencies in the state?

Are local departments calling TDOS to come pick up known illegal immigrants and TDOS is refusing? Or is it that those local departments just don't bother to call? I know we've detained and arrested illegal immigrants in TN and then turned them loose (look at the repeat DUI offenders who ended up killing people in this state)....

I'm not saying that individual police officers are themselves to blame for this situation, this problem is a political and departmental problem - Senior leaders in these departments are turning a blind eye to the immigration problem and the criminal behavior it spawns.

And while we're on criminal behavior... while police officers in general can't enforce immigration law... they can enforce state law, and virtually every illegal immigrant working in this state has violated our identify theft laws, which are state laws and people can't be detained and arrested for... Which we can enforce today without changing state or federal law one bit.

So yeah, I think there is a lot more the law enforcement community could do today without the need for more laws which further impact citizens.

[JayC]

No where in that law were police allowed to approach anyone and demand ID or proof that they are here legally. Only if they were stopped for some violation of law.

There is federal law to prevent this stuff, the Fed's are refusing to enforce it. AZ was attempting to right this situation

The AZ law is an attempt tp stop the problem where it originates.

I am still not sure how the law there was trampling on anyones rights.

I'll agree the AZ state law is worded in such a way to give you the warm and cozy feeling... but it's basically a show ID law at it's roots...

Here is exactly how it can be a problem... Lets say you're riding in a buddy's car and he is pulled over for speeding. (Now keep in mind you're a passenger in AZ so you aren't required to have any form of ID on you, not even for the concealed firearm you're carrying legally)

The officer under the AZ law can request to see YOUR papers, if he believes you might be in the country illegally. Even though you have nothing to do with the traffic stop, the contact is covered under the AZ law. Now you don't have ID... and get a free ride to jail while you're immigration status is verified... Nahh no chance any citizens rights can be trampled here.

The above situation would be 100% legal under the passed AZ law. So yes you can have your rights trampled as a citizen under this law.

Now, do not get me wrong, we have a major problem with illegal immigration in this country... and I'm not some bed wetting liberal that doesn't want it to be stopped. The federal government is failing to protect us, one of the few power they're granted under the Constitution seems to be the one they can't manage to even do right.

But, we can solve this problem without having to resort to laws that could further trample citizens rights.

How about a law that requires every law enforcement agency in AZ to sign up for the 287g program? How about a law that requires every officer who has been on the job more than 2 years to be certified in that program? How about making the identity theft laws in the state harsher, and providing funding to clamp down on identity theft?

There are 3 laws which don't impact citizens one bit, and would result in more illegal immigrants being deported than the current passed AZ law.

Trust me if AZ, TN or any other state wanted to solve the problem, they can do so without passing any laws that would further impact citizens and legal immigrants. They're just not being creative enough.

[DaveTN]

I would simply ask the AG what would keep a legal resident from being detained.

Not having ID on you is not the same as not having ID.

Oh and by the way…. Lay heavy azz fines on employers that hire illegals. They won’t stay if they can’t work.

Edited August 2, 2010 by DaveTN

[Guest strelcevina]

I would simply ask the AG what would keep a legal resident from being detained.

Not having ID on you is not the same as not having ID.

Oh and by the way…. Lay heavy azz fines on employers that hire illegals. They won’t stay if they can’t work.

I can answer that one.

First. Many legal residents don't speak much English.

So its difficult for a Leo to find out legal status by simply asking .

Second. What if you tell a Leo that he can't search you car.

And he asks for a passport.

What boy. You don't have book size 2pound heavy passport on you.

Don't have it On you ...lol. that is exactly what hose and Jesus said.

[Guest crotalus01]

SCOTUS has already ruled that LEOs can ask for proof of citizenship/immigration status for NO reason; the AZ law actually provides more protection than the Federal law. Most people do not realize that, or how potentially close we are to a National ID card...

[wstrnrdr]

Had my house built a few years ago. Guess what. The contractor sent in crews that had 1 person who barely spoke English and the rest none.

Happened to be out of town the day the foundation crew started. Back the 3rd day, called contractor as we had a discussion prior to

construction. Was not satisfied with his answer as he claimed only way to complete job at reasonable price. Reminded him he had

contracted to build for x price and nowhere did it state if he could not use cheap illeagal labor could he raise price.

Needless to say the crew returned to lay block foundation. County inspector came by that AM, just happened to be wearing what looked like

a match for our County LEO's. Had a brain storm. Shouted immigrtion 3 or 4 times and in less than 2 minutes that crew was long gone.

and even left most of their tools. Called county about tools etc. and they laughed and later in the day came by inventoried and picked them up.Contractor called fuming, what happened to his crew, they had left town, and he had several more jobs in progress.

Made him understand I would not tolerate illeagle crews on my house and would contact ICE every time one I thought might be illeagle

showed up. Reminded him of penalties in contract for for various completion dates. Frame date was getting close.

Needless to say 2 days later legal crew was there. Local inspector kept close eye on codes etc on every phase.

Never had another problem

[wstrnrdr]

I agree, pain103. Went to Tn Legislature sight and read bill. Mandatory for jails to verify status, not LEO. gives no authority for

Him/ Her to ask for " Papers".

Again Employers are required by Federal Law to complete an I9 form for every person hired. Form requires multiple pieces of

ID to verify citizenship or legal status. There is even a means through ICE to call in and verify status. So it is pretty clear that a

lot of employers are knowingly forging federal Forms or condoning the use of fake ID's. Crackdown and jail a few with substancial

fines. The rest would get the message pretty quick. Cut off their job opportunities, free health care, and education. Take away

the perks that lure them and they will go away. These jobs would then be available for the unemployed. How many millions

do they guess are here and working. Go back to Unemployment recipients having to actively seek a job, paperwork signed by

Employer.

Kills 3 birds. Gets rid of illeagals, cuts gubmnt cost for care of illegals, and gets the unemployed back on payrolls. Now you cut the

unemployment costs as well. Research what is being spent on healthcare, education etc. on these people. It will blow your socks

off. Fixing this would put a very big dent in the DEFICT.

A friend told me the other it will never happen, all those in Congress and upper Mgmt etc in our Gubmnt will never give up their

cooks, nannys, groundskeepers, drivers, etc. So they support and push amnesty.

[Guest UKTN]

As someone originally from England who has alway been here in the US legally (16 years) and 3 years ago became an American citizen, I think I am able to comment on the issue.

I always had to carry my green card everywhere its no different that a drivers license but because of the green card I was able to get my TN hand gun permit and full drivers license. Every paper I signed to be here legally stated I could speak and write ENGLISH!! So if I see or hear someone who doesn't speak any English I bet there are here illegally.

It is not easy to come and work here legally it takes a lot of money and a lot of time, you have to have family or skills that are not readily available in the US, so construction workers do not qualify yard workers etc do not qualify. I have some friends who have had to leave the US because they didn't get their papers, they had a house jobs etc but once the visa ran out they had to leave or be bared from entering the US for 10 years, they could have stayed but wanted to do it the legal way.

It makes me mad that just because you can run across our southern border you can break the law and get away with it.

[Guest strelcevina]

. Every paper I signed to be here legally stated I could speak and write ENGLISH!! So if I see or hear someone who doesn't speak any English I bet there are here illegally.

I worked with immigrants for 3 years and had thousands of them coming true my office every year.99% of them couldn't speak read or write any English. I can guarantee you that more than 10% of Nashville population is just like that.

So you would definitely lose that bet.

Secondly your friends couldn't get visa for more than 2years.

After student visa is expired.

So ur friends never had a chance to stay anyway.

see it on the positive side.

Illegals here look just like pikeys Ain't it

So now you can talk with ur deported friends about them, feels kind of same . And as a bonus we got a lot of albanians here to.

Edited August 3, 2010 by strelcevina

[Guest UKTN]

I worked with immigrants for 3 years and had thousands of them coming true my office every year.99% of them couldn't speak read or write any English. I can guarantee you that more than 10% of Nashville population is just like that.

So you would definitely lose that bet.

Secondly your friends couldn't get visa for more than 2years.

After student visa is expired.

So ur friends never had a chance to stay anyway.

see it on the positive side.

Illegals here look just like pikeys Ain't it

So now you can talk with ur deported friends about them, feels kind of same . And as a bonus we got a lot of albanians here to.

I don't understand your comments are you saying I did not see the statements on speaking English on the many immigration papers I signed?

Who said anything about student visas? It is possible for an employer to get visas providing the person being employed has a skill set not readily available in the US I had two 3 year visas that way.

What is a pikey?

[Guest strelcevina]

I don't understand your comments are you saying I did not see the statements on speaking English on the many immigration papers I signed?

Who said anything about student visas? It is possible for an employer to get visas providing the person being employed has a skill set not readily available in the US I had two 3 year visas that way.

What is a pikey?

Pikey:)

I meant it as a joke. You know. As English humor.

You don't know pikey. How about gypsy.

[Mike.357]

we need a Strel to English dictionary around here

[Guest nozzle13]

Strel, sure doesn't have a problem being a racist, well accept against the Mexicans. Maybe his sig. other is Mexican, that's why he's all heated up. Imagine them trying to communicate? Ha I digress.

I've got an Idea. AMNESTY: with a rider that they must join THE LEGION

We will create a new branch of the military, to supplement our traditional forces, based on the French Foreign Legion. A mandatory service agreement of six years will be required. All who refuse will be instantly deported. The main base can be in the Mojave, and will have quarters for families, however they must be signed up to provide other functions. (Nursing, Clerical,etc.). All members will be forced to only speak and write in English. After the initial six years, if they are alive, they will be granted citizenship, or they may return to there country of origin.

Strel, with all of his advanced education, could even be a Sgt. and work in the mess hall or something.