Ramsey Speaks Out On Islam

[pegasusrider]

Floridatoday - Tennessee politician's remarks on Islam raise uproar

[Guest Archminister01]

Well I look at it this way. How many laws have been proposed, polled or passed that have a strictly religious basis in the United States. I may be misspoken, but I always thought that there is a distinct partition between church and state and that nothing of the such has happened to date. When any religion starts talking about passing LAWS based on their beliefs, then we have trouble. I say let any religion practice how it wants within the confines of its own organizational structure and never let it leak into state or federal jurisdictions. if they are truly trying to have their beliefs passed as law..then i say screw them and the horse they rode in on. At that point they have become a legal not spiritual governing entity and that is NOT what religion is. IMHO

[timcalhoun]

All I can say is that in the weeks after 9/11, the silence and lack of outrage over the attack from so called "moderate/peaceful muslims" was deafening.

[Guest strelcevina]

Lol he calls them a cult.

What a moron.

Limbo.

[peejman]

Judging all Muslim's by the actions of jihadists is no different from judging all Baptists by the actions of Westboro Baptist.

Edited July 29, 2010 by peejman

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ouch. Politically, he did not need to stick his foot in his mouth at this time... this will not do well for his attempt at beating Haslam.

[Bigiron]

I admire Ramsey for speaking out. Most politicians would give a run-around answer or lie about it. I learned all I ever want to know about Islam on 9/11.

[mikegideon]

Ouch. Politically, he did not need to stick his foot in his mouth at this time... this will not do well for his attempt at beating Haslam.

You are probably right. It will (did) get him on the Colbert report.

[Guest drv2fst]

We have freedom of religion in this country and that's the way it should be, freedom. Freedom means I may not like your choices but agree to let you make those choices just as you agree to let me make my own. You may choose any religion or none at all.

Muslims have their crazy extremists just like every other group of humans.

What frustrates me is the extremists that want "freedom FROM religion" instead of "freedom OF religion". Religion in one form or another has been a part of almost every human endeavor (the good ones and the bad ones). What makes them think we can magically remove all religion from our society?

[Mark@Sea]

Judging all Muslim's by the actions of jihadists is no different from judging all Christians by the actions of Westboro Baptist.

Oh yeah, because Westboro Baptist has thousands of members.

Political Correctness is a useful tool that creates tools.

Don't be a tool.

[Ebow1]

How many laws have been proposed, polled or passed that have a strictly religious basis in the United States. I may be misspoken, but I always thought that there is a distinct partition between church and state and that nothing of the such has happened to date

Pretty much every law concerning alcohol. Not buying liquor on Sundays, not being able to build a liquor store within so many feet of a church. There's plenty of legally binding paper that was established from the morals and ethics of christianity in this country. While the bible is not inherently against alcohol, and certainly doesn't say don't buy alcohol on Sunday and don't build a liquor store near a church, most baptist churches are inherently anti alcohol and it is those morals and ethics that are the basis of such blue laws, and they are derived directly from chrisitianity. These might be minor laws, but to me it is still government endorsement of the morals of a specific religion.

[Guest drv2fst]

How many laws have been proposed, polled or passed that have a strictly religious basis in the United States. I may be misspoken, but I always thought that there is a distinct partition between church and state and that nothing of the such has happened to date

Pretty much every law concerning alcohol. Not buying liquor on Sundays, not being able to build a liquor store within so many feet of a church. There's plenty of legally binding paper that was established from the morals and ethics of christianity in this country. While the bible is not inherently against alcohol, and certainly doesn't say don't buy alcohol on Sunday and don't build a liquor store near a church, most baptist churches are inherently anti alcohol and it is those morals and ethics that are the basis of such blue laws, and they are derived directly from chrisitianity. These might be minor laws, but to me it is still government endorsement of the morals of a specific religion.

Those are simply regional variations. Catholics drink a lot, as do some other Christian variations. There are issues in the south about alcohol on Sundays but is it that way everywhere? I doubt it. (but I have not been everywhere) Regional variation is a good way to experiment with different policies. What works will be copied and what does not work will not.

They represent the feeling by the people at the time the law was passed that this would make for a more peaceful society. It may be outdated now. Many laws are outdated. But that is not the fault of religions influence on government. It's the fault of the people that they lack the will to force the elected leaders to change the law.

[Armed Aviator]

How many laws have been proposed, polled or passed that have a strictly religious basis in the United States. I may be misspoken, but I always thought that there is a distinct partition between church and state and that nothing of the such has happened to date

Strictly constitutionally speaking, there is no distinct partition between church and state in our constitution and bill of rights. This is a notion brought on by activist Judges.

[Guest nosnos]

If you don't want to implement policy based on your beliefs, then why have any beliefs at all?

There is no constitutional problem with making laws based on personal belief. That's not the same as mandating practice of a specific religion. Traditional judeo-christian morality is not a specific religion.

Just sayin. Suggesting not legislating anything resembling any hint of spirituality is idiotic.

[Ebow1]

I spend all Mardi Gras with the Knights of Columbus in New Orleans. I know about Catholic drinking which is why i specified the anti alcohol sentiment amongst baptists where it is much more prevalent. To say that the religion is no way at fault I think is incorrect although blaming the people for not forcing these laws to be changed I do agree with. Not having knowlege of exactly how and why the laws were put into place does hinder my argument, as it could be that baptist heavy populations got the laws in place, or that baptist politicians put them into place to appeal to their known demographic, or that the laws were put into place completely seperately of christianity (although I doubt that one). However, without having known exactly how it happened it's not very fair to start pointing fingers.

I would like to point out that I'm not trying to demonize baptists or any branch of christianity. There is both a heavy concentration of baptists and blue laws in the south and it is obvious that plenty of these blue laws stem directly from christianity, especially the ones concerning alcohol sales on sunday, as it is noone else's holy day. I am merely commenting that these blue laws are obviously legal extensions of the morality of christianity. I not being a christian, should not have it legislated to me when I can and can't buy alcohol, or go to a bar.

[Ebow1]

There is no constitutional problem with making laws based on personal belief.-Agree

That's not the same as mandating practice of a specific religion. Traditional judeo-christian morality is not a specific religion.-No, but to derive laws from morals that are specifically judeo-christian is the government endorsement of a specific religion.

Just sayin. Suggesting not legislating anything resembling any hint of spirituality is idiotic.-I never suggested any such thing. There a plenty of laws that are also commandments in the bible. However, they have also found to be laws amongst a multitude of pre-christian tribal societies and other such groups of people. That's because they are understood seemingly by all to be basic human rights. Things like murder and theft are wrong, but they are not viewed as wrong solely in the bible, they are viewed as wrong by just about every society across the world past and present, christian or not. Laws derived from things that are said to be wrong only in the bible, or things thought to be wrong only by christians, are laws derived solely from christianity, and do not belong in our country.

[Guest RevScottie]

Floridatoday - Tennessee politician's remarks on Islam raise uproar

"Now you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, a way of life or cult, whatever you want to call it?"

Surely Ramsey realizes that Islam, Judaism, and Chrisitanity can be traced back to common roots. No wonder people outside our state think we are a bunch of ignorant inbred rednecks.

[Guest drv2fst]

I did not make my point well. I'll try again. The laws reflect the feelings of the people at the time the law was passed. What inspired those feelings may have changed over time. When those blue laws were passed probably 95% of citizens in this region were some variation of Christian. If that is no longer true and there is a strong support in the region to change those laws then we have mechanisms to do that. What motivated the law originally is not as important as whether the law still serves a relevant purpose in society.

More to the topic of this thread:

I hope Ramsey did not damage himself with that comment. In my opinion it was a sorely misguided comment.

[enfield]

. . . . Muslims have their crazy extremists just like every other group of humans.

Sure - everybody's doing it. Look out for those killer Quakers.

Nobody in MY group of humans has ever killed 3000 Americans in one day. There is no moral equivalence.

[Guest drv2fst]

Sure - everybody's doing it. Look out for those killer Quakers.

Nobody in MY group of humans has ever killed 3000 Americans in one day. There is no moral equivalence.

hmmm, Quakers if I remember correctly used their Muskets to kill one tribe of indians (in their sleep) to gain the help of another tribe. Saw that on "America the Story of Us".

I am sure if you define "MY group" we can google up some proof that you are wrong. When in a pack, humans are a vicious animal without exception. The sooner we realize that we are all in need of some improvement in our behavior, the sooner we can begin working on those improvements.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not defending Islam (or any other group). I am just saying all groups have their skeletons in history and current assortment of wako's.

[Guest TnRebel]

He didn't call it a cult , he said what ever you want to call it a cult or way of life and so on .

"But you cross the line when they start trying to bring Sharia law into the United States," he said. "Now you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, a way of life or cult, whatever you want to call it? We do protect our religions, but at the same time, this is something that we are going to have to face."

[G27]

I hope Ramsey did not damage himself with that comment. In my opinion it was a sorely misguided comment.

I'd say he has - I was 100% for him but now I'm not so sure. If he's able to make a comment like what else is lurking in his brain?

[Guest TnRebel]

Ramsey clarifies stance@

In a phone interview, Ramsey tried to clarify his stance, saying he has "no problem — and I don't think anyone in this country has a problem — with peace-loving, freedom-loving Muslims that move to this country and assimilate into our society."

"But it's undeniable that there's a portion of Islam that's been co-opted by a radical faction that promotes violence not only against Americans but around the world," he said. "That's what I'm talking about."

[G27]

Ramsey clarifies stance@

In a phone interview, Ramsey tried to clarify his stance, saying he has "no problem — and I don't think anyone in this country has a problem — with peace-loving, freedom-loving Muslims that move to this country and assimilate into our society."

"But it's undeniable that there's a portion of Islam that's been co-opted by a radical faction that promotes violence not only against Americans but around the world," he said. "That's what I'm talking about."

Fair enough, hard to argue with that.

[Guest TnRebel]

UNHOLY QUOTES FROM THE KORAN

THAT PROMOTE TERRORISM

THE KINGDOM ALERT #130, P.1, WEEKLY UPDATE

Warning: The following quotes are blasphemous. They are taken from the Koran (translated by N.J. Danwood). By reading these quotes you will have a basic understanding of the Muslim religion, the wars and tension in the Middle East, and the terrorism on September 11:

"...now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it...they reply: 'We believe in what was revealed to us.' But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth...Say: 'Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel' (who has by God's grace revealed to you [Muhammad] the Koran as a guide...confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.'...And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs...The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. " (Surah 2:88-, 98-, 103-)

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)

"If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20)

"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

"Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)

"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

"You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:33-)

"As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29) "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

I can certainly sympathize with the great responsibility political leaders have in our country during this time of tragedy. I understand that they must be careful to do their part in restraining and discouraging any persecution of citizens of Middle Eastern descent. However, we have reached a point of "politically correct" insanity. When our country was founded, "toleration" never meant approval or agreement. Suddenly, many of our political leaders and media spokesmen have become theologians, teaching the country that there is no difference in the major religions and that it somehow "hatred of people" to teach that another religion is false.

The proper response of these leaders should be to say something to the effect of: "There are many nominal Muslims in this country that reject the dangerous doctrines taught in the Koran and throughout fundamental Islam. They don't believe they should kill Jews or Christians. They don't believe they will be rewarded in Paradise for such atrocities. Nevertheless, we know that the world is filled with Muslims who do attempt to follow the Koran in detail. They believe the fundamental tenants of the Islamic religion. These people are dangerous. These people are to blame for the horrific events on September 11. I am not calling people to give up their beliefs. I am not calling you to accept the nominal form of the Islamic religion practiced by many in this country as true. No, in this country you have a right to speak your mind, to debate, and to peaceably make converts. This is one major thing that makes our country different than the dangerous Islamic countries. If everything is true, then nothing is true. However, I am calling people in this country to refrain from criminal acts of hatred or fear against people of Middle Eastern descent. We must protect our country from those who would seek to destroy it from without or within. But we must not start a mad witchhunt against law-abiding Americans simply on the basis of their skin color or style of dress. And as far as religion goes, you can't assume that every Muslim believes the same way."