Using your gun to prevent an assault?

[Guest Drewsett]

So this is pretty much an exercise in academics because I don't have my HCP yet.

So I was threatened at work tonight by a fellow server. I called him out for not doing his job. He came up to me and said that if I called him out like that again, that he would "****ing cut" me. I just told him that it wasn't smart to threaten me with physical violence and left it at that. He then came up to me at a later point and said that he would "drop me in ten seconds flat". I reminded him that it wasn't smart to threaten me with physical violence and then added "because I do have guns after all". He then said, "you would bring a gun to a fistfight? That's pretty cowardly". I just said that I have guns so that I don't have to have any fights, fists or otherwise.

So I guess I have two questions. One, did I handle the situation well? I did go and tell my boss everything that went down, but told him to let me handle it on my own because we are both grown men and should be able to get over this.

Two, if it did come down to it, if the only thing I was in fear of is getting beat up, would I be justified in drawing or at least just untucking my shirt and showing that I have a weapon in an effort to prevent the assault? I know the rule is that you shouldn't draw unless you intend to fire, and the last thing I want to do is go to jail for "brandishing" because I was trying to not get in a fight.

Please TGO'ers, give me your advice

[dats82]

First thing you should do is to never say another word about having guns. He could twist this around to say that you were threatening him with your guns.

Secondly, if I am carrying, which is a bit redundant because I always am, and someone rushes me, I will certainly put my gun in his face. At that point, I would not know if he had a weapon or not, and I am not going to wait to find out. Will I immediately fire? No, but I will be ready to if needed. You do not always know what fight is a fist fight or a gun fight ahead of time.

Either way, stay quite about it and just let your actions speak. I kinda believe in the speak softly and carry a big stick philosophy, but I traded the stick for a gun.

[The Scullinator]

From what I understand if you are armed you should avoid conflict and that means running if that what it comes down to. I don't think that showing your gun would be a good idea at all... he already knows you carry and thats a problem in its self. This whole situation is not good at all... if he wants to mess you up all he's got to do is catch you before you can draw. depending on where you work that may not be hard. I'm having a hard time understanding how your boss knows he threatened you and he's not doing anything.

to question 1. by responding with "its not smart to threaten me with physical violence" that could be interpreted as a counter threat.

to question 2. you have to be in fear of your life to justify drawing and or firing.

Man I would just lay low. You got a bad situation here. 1. guy threatened you. 2. He has made comment about your gun. 3. what you've already said to him could be interpreted as a threat. 4. From the information I have your boss isn't doing anything about it. 5. even if you did have a perfect self defense shooting you've already got some issues with the situation.

I'm not saying you shouldn't draw if you ARE IN TRUE FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE. I'm just saying be careful.

Edited July 28, 2010 by The Scullinator

[Guest Drewsett]

First thing you should do is to never say another word about having guns. He could twist this around to say that you were threatening him with your guns.

I figured that pretty much as soon as I said it. The really sad part about this is that I would have considered the guy a friend up until tonight.

I am just going to lay low, and I really doubt anything will come of it. My boss wanted to have us sit down and talk it out amongst each other...his first reaction was "he was probably just joking around". His second reaction was "you own guns, it would be pretty stupid to threaten you". I don't carry, because I don't have a HCP, so no one thinks I carry one. But there are several other people I work with who own guns and target shoot for fun and we talk about it. So it is common knowledge that I own guns, but it is also common knowledge that I am not the type of person to be aggressive in any way. I may be 6'2 and 250 and look scary, but as my wife says I look like a grizzly bear but am really a teddy bear.

I figure if I just ignore the situation that it will go away, he would face all kinds of ridicule at work if he were to try to attack me, not to mention getting arrested because I'm big enough and have enough experience with hand to hand fighting (everyone likes to pick on the big guy) to just take and or deflect punches until the police arrive or someone helps to restrain him.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Drewsett

[Punisher84]

At 6'2 250 you are going to have a hard time proving you were in fear of your life in a fist fight with anyone of a comparable size. You can't just draw and shoot because you don't want to get punched. You have to be in fear of SERIOUS BODILY INJURY or DEATH. So if he did actually pull a knife or weapon, you'd be ok. If he punches you in the face, either punch him back or walk away. Don't shoot him lol

[Guest Drewsett]

You can't just draw and shoot because you don't want to get punched.

Obviously.... I was asking about drawing and/or letting it be known that you are armed. I am appreciative that you responded, but please don't assume I'm an idiot (even though it was pretty stupid to mention guns the way that I did).

[Guest Keinengel]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that brandishing your gun might not have any effect on him whatsoever. Most "Normal" people would stop dead in their tracks if you point a gun and them and warn them that you are willing to shoot. However normal people don't threaten to stab their coworkers when they are called out for sitting on their asses.

Drawing your weapon unneccesarily will make the entire situation worse like the others have said.

[daddyo]

Obviously.... I was asking about drawing and/or letting it be known that you are armed.

Absolutely not. That will get you in a whole heap 'o trouble that you don't want. You should do anything and everything to avoid a confrontation. He would have to press it to the point of threatening you so that you were actually in fear of your life.

You NEVER draw your weapon unless you intend to use it.

[Steelharp]

I am just going to lay low, and I really doubt anything will come of it... I figure if I just ignore the situation that it will go away

Haven't read a "disgruntled employee" story in a while; this might be page 1 of a new one. I would stay aware. Re: "Brandishing;" when I took my course (Glockmeister), I asked him about brandishing, and what would define that with my HCP. He picked up the blue plastic training Glock and stuck it in my face. lol... He explained to me that I could carry the gun in my hand if I wanted to, as long as it stayed pointing toward the ground. He also advised that wouldn't be intelligent, but it would be legal. Without an HCP, brandishing is ANY visible presence.

[Fallguy]

To answer the questions about showing you gut to prevent an assault, I think the simple answer is No.

In TN it seems you can't really do that unless you would be justified in using it.

If you were to show him your gun, you could be charged with assualt if that action put him in fear of being harmed.

AFAIK AZ is the only state with a law that allows the display of a firearm to try and difuse a situation.

[M1_Garand]

This sounds like a good scenario for carrying a less than lethal weapon, like pepper spray.

[Guest 10mm4me]

The fact that this guy said "I will cut you", leads me to believe he is nothing more than some knid of hood rat and all talk. I would ignore him and remain silent. Never tell a prospective enemy that you have a weapon. Teddy said it best, "Walk softly and carry a big stick" (P.S. I hope your stick is a Glock)

[Punisher84]

To answer the questions about showing you gut to prevent an assault, I think the simple answer is No.

In TN it seems you can't really do that unless you would be justified in using it.

Stop them with laughter or terror. I like it. LMAO

[Punisher84]

Obviously.... I was asking about drawing and/or letting it be known that you are armed. I am appreciative that you responded, but please don't assume I'm an idiot (even though it was pretty stupid to mention guns the way that I did).

I don't assume anything. Even the "I have guns" comment is just something you do under stress, it a slip of the tongue mistake. I added the comment I did to add a little levity, but also show the disparity of force issue.

[JAB]

This sounds like a good scenario for carrying a less than lethal weapon, like pepper spray.

I agree. I often carry spray even when I am carrying a firearm.

That makes me think of a related thread I want to start (rather than jack this one.)

[nightrunner]

just untucking your shirt would be the same as open carrying, not brandishing, fwiw

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The fact that this guy said "I will cut you", leads me to believe he is nothing more than some knid of hood rat and all talk. I would ignore him and remain silent. Never tell a prospective enemy that you have a weapon. Teddy said it best, "Walk softly and carry a big stick" (P.S. I hope your stick is a Glock)

I would give this kind of advice, unless cornered. People say the dumbest

things. Don't join them.

[Smith]

just untucking your shirt would be the same as open carrying, not brandishing, fwiw

Not exactly. IIRC brandishing in TN means displaying it in a threatening manner. Strictly speaking pulling you shirt up to display it is brandishing (without an HCP). Problem is it is all interpretive and you never know how the cop or judge would view it. Keep your mouth shut and only show or pull you weapon if you are also going to pull the trigger.

[Fallguy]

just untucking your shirt would be the same as open carrying, not brandishing, fwiw

But if you did that in front of him......it could be taken in a threatening manner......

[guyandarifle]

I hate these kind of questions as a good sized man, by which I mean a healthy 180lb, (or even much smaller guy if he's some kind of martial arts expert) nevermind a 210lb+ guy in any kind of shape, can absolutely mess you up with one clean punch to the face. There have been boxers die and this is being hit by people with gloves on. This is actually complicated somewhat as in this state we have no "duty to retreat". So, if some guy charges you, and you have no legal duty to retreat but DO have a legal right to defend yourself...see how ugly this gets? And if your attacker does get the upper hand where's the ref that comes in and stops the fight? Now you might be on the ground, getting your face kicked in by boots, AND now the guy might actually have access to your gun which you were worried about being justified in pulling in the first place.

Messy business.

[Smith]

I've seen this now in a couple post. There is NO duty to retreat in TN.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Very dumb to mention the word gun and that you have one, IMHO.

[Oh Shoot]

Not exactly. IIRC brandishing in TN means displaying it in a threatening manner. ...

To my knowledge, TCA has nothing to say about brandishing at all.

It is however, a form of "simple" assault which "Intentionally or knowingly causes another to reasonably fear imminent bodily injury".

Then again, if someone threatens you with a beating, he has done the same, and done it first, and you are re-acting to a threat, and not initiating it.

- OS

Edited July 28, 2010 by OhShoot

[JReedEsq]

Brandishing a gun is never a "simple" assault because, by definition, you're using a deadly weapon. Using a deadly weapon is an aggravating factor.

[mikegideon]

If he comes at you, kick his ass. If he comes at you with a knife, shoot him. Might wanna avoid mentioning guns.