New Bill introduced proposing CCW in establishment serving liquor

[DaveTN]

The other possibility is that the law remove the liability to restaurants who allow carry for shooting incidents. Do you think ambulance chasing attorneys would go for that?

That is the bill that I am waiting on and would do the most for all of us.

Place the liability exactly where it belongs….. on the guy that makes the decision to pull the trigger.

But I agree that it probably would not pass because it removes the “deep pockets” from the payday equation. Lawyers won’t allow that.

[DaveTN]

EXACTLY!!!!

...and if I hear "Alcohol and Guns don't mix" one more freaking time...I'm going to puke!!!!! Can't this people read? The HCP holder absolutely can not take even one sip while armed by this bill.

Sure people can read.

They can read the comments posted right here on this forum by members that make the same argument drunk drivers make…. They are unaffected by alcohol and will be just fine.â€

They are the concern about allowing carry in bars and some will be jailed over it.

My answer to that is to make the law clear and make the sentence serious. First offense of carrying and drinking in a bar is permanent revocation of any carry privilege; HCP holder or LEO. This is not a problem for law abiding gun owners…. I don’t care if they make it a felony.

[Beretta Racer]

Don't forget Briley, he was very loud and opinionated yesterday during the session. Isn't he the belligerent drunk guy that was caught on tape?

He has wisely decided to hang it up and not run again.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Beretta Racer

[Guest Jamie]

I don’t care if they make it a felony.

I dunno about that.

I think they've already made enough crimes felonies that probably shouldn't be. They need to reserve the "felony" classification for harmful or dangerous acts. Using a firearm while intoxicated, for instance. But just drinking while carrying? Nah... that's too much like making it a felony for something you might do.

A misdemeanor and/or losing your carry permit should be enough.

J.

[Marswolf]

I think sometimes we overreact, particularly in the Bible Belt.

You can carry your handgun into a bar and drink there in some states. Last I heard, those places do not have blood running under the door of the bars because the patrons get drunk and shoot up the place.

At least one state has set a BAC of .04 as the limit for packing. I think that's reasonable myself.

[DaveTN]

You can carry your handgun into a bar and drink there in some states. Last I heard, those places do not have blood running under the door of the bars because the patrons get drunk and shoot up the place.

At least one state has set a BAC of .04 as the limit for packing. I think that's reasonable myself.

I’ve seen that stated as fact on a few forums. How many states allow you to carry in a bar and drink? I’m not arguing that they don’t; just wondering what states allow that.

Shootings and threats with firearms were not uncommon when I was in Illinois where there are no carry permits, so I would guess that states that allow carry in bars would have even more. But that’s just a WAG since I haven’t seen any stats on it.

[Marswolf]

I have a topic on another board about that, Dave. There aren't many. Just one or two. I am told this is true in Indiana but I haven't checked it out There are more states that allow carry in bars. and more still that let you pack in restaurants that have bars as long as you don't sit in that section or drink while there. I think Kentucky is like that. You can do that in Virginia as long as you open carry. But as far as I know, you can't drink while carrying. I'm sure Virginia is like Tennessee and you can not be "under the influence" of alcohol. I live five minutes from Virginia. Have to keep up with their laws too.

But my point is that even if it is only one state that lets you pack and drink, they really don't have a problem because of it. I wonder how many people illegally carry and drink in bars and restaurants but who don't become deranged killers. My guess is "a bunch."

I think we imagine problems where they don't exist. We normally see this with the gun-grabbers who predict all sorts of dire consequences if ordinary citizens have guns in their house, pack, don't have to retreat, etc. The problems are imaginary and people who have permits are good enough citizens, as demonstrated by their lack of criminal history, to not become a problem. A carry permit really is a good citizenship card.

My feeling is that if I go into a restaurant and have a glass of wine, when I come out I should still be able to legally protect myself from thugs who attack me. I think .04% BAC is a reasonable allowance for drinking and packing. I'd even go for .08%.

I don't think Tennessee will ever go with allowing drinking in establishments while packing, although in my opinion it should as long as there are significant restrictions.

[Fallguy]

I can't find the law right now, but MN does not prohibit carry in bars/restaurants and you can carry as long as your BAC is below .04%

[Fallguy]

Just for refrence...The bill that would prohibit hunting with a firearm while under the influence, HB1875, that did pass in the sub-committee, establishes a BAC of .08% Now we have talked about statutory law and case law...so not sure how that would work on this, but one could argue, if it becomes law, that this establishes a BAC off .08% to be presumed to be under the influence while armed.

Also the house bill did add Senate Amendments 1 and 2 which means this only applied to public lands and waters...I guess if you are hunting on private land you can be as blitzed as you want to be and still hunt.

[Marswolf]

I can't find the law right now, but MN does not prohibit carry in bars/restaurants and you can carry as long as your BAC is below .04%

I thought there was a state up there that allowed that. I thought it was Michigan, but found out they allow carry in restaurants that derive mos of their income from food.

[Guest jp79]

I’ve seen that stated as fact on a few forums. How many states allow you to carry in a bar and drink? I’m not arguing that they don’t; just wondering what states allow that.

Shootings and threats with firearms were not uncommon when I was in Illinois where there are no carry permits, so I would guess that states that allow carry in bars would have even more. But that’s just a WAG since I haven’t seen any stats on it.

West Virginia allows drinking while packing and it follows the same .08 rule that comes with driving and we have had no problems that i have ever heard of.

[Guest 270win]

The Arkansas State Police is not correct on this issue on their website (stating it is illegal to carry on a license while drinking), but in Arkansas you cannot get your license revoked for drinking alone. You must be convicted of an alcohol related offense while carrying, such as public intoxication or DWI. Texas has a stated limit of .08 like driving. Never heard of any problems in those states. I don't know what the hang up is here with alcohol.

[Tim Nunan]

I think the reason the restaurants don't want this to pass is because there is no advantage to them supporting it.

Right now, you can't carry in these places that serve alcohol. If it passes, then they have to make a choice. They either don't post, but assume greater liability if someone does come in and shoot up the place. Or they do post and piss off those of us with carry permits.

There has to be a reason for them to support a change. We could boycott restaurants who do not support us, but permit holders only make up 3% of the Tennessee population and besides, boycotts don't work anyway.

The other possibility is that the law remove the liability to restaurants who allow carry for shooting incidents. Do you think ambulance chasing attorneys would go for that?

The only way we are going to get this put into law is to exchange enough Democrat members in the House with Republicans to vote Naifeh out of the Speaker's seat.

<!--StartFragment -->From TFA Executive Director, John Harris:

Under the current TN law on beer sales (local regulation) and alcohol sales

(ABC state regulation), there is no such thing as a bar. By law, all must

have at least 50% non alcohol/beer sales is my understanding from the liquor

lobbyist. Therefore, any "percentage" rule is unworkable to define a "tavern"

from a family restaurant.

Add to that the concern that the restaurant association, although they have

backed off this issue, will oppose any legislation which requires a business

owner to keep records for the purpose of requiring them to post signage about the ratio of sales.

Bottom line - we cannot accept any percentage deals.

john

[Fallguy]

Hate to say it...but I think those were the very first words out of Naifeh's mouth last week. "There are no bars in Tennessee."

With some of the talk last week about needing to "rework" the code. I'm not sure if it looks good this year. To me sounds more like they are going to work on defining bars/taverns and restaurants and then maybe allow carry in just the restaurants.

carries

[Marswolf]

Not allowing bars sounds like something our Bible Belt Tennessee legislature would do.

Bars and taverns are part of the cultural heritage of Tennessee and the United States. I despise Bible thumpers more each day.

[molonlabetn]

It's pretty stupid to differentiate between bars, resturaunts, taverns, etc... they all serve alcohol.

The law should simply be that folks can carry firearms anywhere not prohibited by the owner of the property/business. Anything else is just making laws for the sake of having laws.

[Marswolf]

Back when I lived in Raleigh, I much preferred to go to places like the Cary Tavern or Checkerboard lounge rather than a restaurant to drink. Back in those days you couldn't buy liquor by the drink, so you had to join a club and brown bag. The end result was that you drank a lot more than if they had liquor by the drink.

Yeah, you occasionally had to step over someone bleeding on the floor to get to the bar. Those were the good old days.

[Guest jackdog]

Mars you are 100% correct in regards to Indiana law. You can both drink and carry in the bars. They have had few if any problems with people carrying in bars. I assume that an armed society is much more polite in bars. As for bible thumpers they make me want to up chuck on a regular basis.

[Marswolf]

As for bible thumpers they make me want to up chuck on a regular basis.

I'm not an atheist or anything, although I am close - I'm a Methodist.

But I think you need to set your religion aside when making law and not insist that code be made according to only my (or your) religious beliefs. We have a lot of voters not far removed from the witch burners of Salem, IMHO, and that's scary.

[saintsfanbrian]

Anything else is just making laws for the sake of having laws.

That's called job security. If they weren't up there making new laws all the time, we wouldn't need them.

Wait, we don't really need them. I personally thing that the mayors of the Counties would do a much better job once or twice a year getting together to determine if anything new needs to be added to the books.

I would say cities, but I don't want Mayor Potato Head anywhere near law making ability.

[robin48]

Decided to delete post.

Edited March 28, 2008 by robin48

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I'm a Christian and im sure im not the only one on here

[Guest Boomhower]

Nope, there's actually 1,446 on here as of this post.

[Fallguy]

I consider myself a Christian as well....but I do not see it as the state's place to legislate morality.

[Guest jp79]

I consider myself a Christian as well....but I do not see it as the state's place to legislate morality.

+1

And i really don't like it when people try to make laws in the name of Christianity when they were never Gods laws in the first place