Different primers?

[kb4ns]

How much difference does manufacturer make on primers? I've used Winchester, Remington, and CCI primers and have never noticed any difference in performance. I've heard that Wolf primers are a little harder than others (IIRC correctly). Other than "hardness", when (if ever) does the primer make a difference?

I'm not talking about standard versus magnum. Just one brand versus another.

[leroy]

In my experience there is no difference in primers for pistol loads other than hardness of the primer cup material. There is published data and testimony out there in places like the benchrest shooting world who will tell you that differences in rifle primers causes variations in the performance of rifle loads. But it is important to rememver, these guys measure minute differences in groups.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Dolomite_supafly]

I can say that when I switched from CCI 400's to Wolf Small Rifle Magnum I picked up an extra 200 FPS. Same load with the same powder, same charge weight, same cases and the same bullet seated to the same depth. I had never tried Wolf primers before so in the loading process I loaded some brass with Wolf rather than CCI 400's. I then went on to load ALL the brass in the same way then I went back and checked primers to get the Wolf primed bullets out of the bunch. I took 5 of those and 5 of the CCI 400's and ran them over the chronograph.

Here are the results:

FirearmSavage

Barrel Length26

Caliber0.223

Bullet69 SMK

PrimerWolf

PowderVarget

Charge24.5

OAL2.354

Ogive OAL1.962

Low Velocity2949

High Velocity2964

Average Velocity2954

Extreme Spread14.45

Standard Deviation6.16

BrassR-P

FirearmSavage

Barrel Length26

Caliber0.223

Bullet69 SMK

PrimerCCI400

PowderVarget

Charge24.5

OAL2.354

Ogive OAL1.962

Low Velocity2744

High Velocity2773

Average Velocity2757

Extreme Spread29.55

Standard Deviation14.73

BrassR-P

Dolomite

Edited July 25, 2010 by Dolomite_supafly

[kb4ns]

Good info gentlemen and thank you. That's pretty much what I figured, seeing as how I've never noticed a difference in pistol loads with different primers. If I ever get to the point where I shoot enough rifle ammo to justify reloading it, I might try sticking to one brand of primer.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I can say that you will probably never see a difference between brands in pistol. As long as it cycles and seems accurate.

In rifles some loads prefer certain primers. I run the same load, 69 SMK with 24.5 Varget, all the time. I have tried different primers and it does seem to have favorites based. The Wolf is the highest velocity load that maintains decent accuracy. I took the rifle out this weekend and was keeping ALL rounds within a 1.5" circle. My loads using CCI 400's seemed to shoot better at 100 yards but fall to pieces after that while the Wolf loads are accurate to at least 400 yards.

My biggest concern was getting my ballistics programs to coincide with my loads. One program was right on with no tweaking while the other I need to tweak a bit more to get right. They let me make first rounds hits on steel at pretty much any known range. I have a mildot, just not on this rifle, that I use for determining distance. Once I am able to get a mildot for this rifle I should be able to determine distance without much fuss and use the mildot for holdover or even make precise adjustments using the knobs.

Dolomite

[gregintenn]

I've read many times the warning that says when changing any component including primer brands, start at the minimum load and work up from there. If you own a chronograph, you might be able to see a miniscule difference between primers, but without one, I can't tell any difference.

[USMCJG]

I can say that when I switched from CCI 400's to Wolf Small Rifle Magnum I picked up an extra 200 FPS. Same load with the same powder, same charge weight, same cases and the same bullet seated to the same depth. I had never tried Wolf primers before so in the loading process I loaded some brass with Wolf rather than CCI 400's. I then went on to load ALL the brass in the same way then I went back and checked primers to get the Wolf primed bullets out of the bunch. I took 5 of those and 5 of the CCI 400's and ran them over the chronograph.

Here are the results:

FirearmSavage

Barrel Length26

Caliber0.223

Bullet69 SMK

PrimerWolf

PowderVarget

Charge24.5

OAL2.354

Ogive OAL1.962

Low Velocity2949

High Velocity2964

Average Velocity2954

Extreme Spread14.45

Standard Deviation6.16

BrassR-P

FirearmSavage

Barrel Length26

Caliber0.223

Bullet69 SMK

PrimerCCI400

PowderVarget

Charge24.5

OAL2.354

Ogive OAL1.962

Low Velocity2744

High Velocity2773

Average Velocity2757

Extreme Spread29.55

Standard Deviation14.73

BrassR-P

Dolomite

Good info. Wolf primers have a good reputation for low ES and SD which would agree with your real world testing. By any chance have you had the opportunity to compare the Wolf's against CCI BR or Federal GMM primers for ES/SD?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Good info. Wolf primers have a good reputation for low ES and SD which would agree with your real world testing. By any chance have you had the opportunity to compare the Wolf's against CCI BR or Federal GMM primers for ES/SD?

The only primers I have are CCI 400 + 41, Wolf SRM and Remingtom 7.5 + 6.5.

I haven't tested any of these against eachother. I generally stay with what works so Wolf SRM primers are going to be my primary primers. I just primed some brand new WInchester 223 brass with Remington 7.5's.

I think a big thing is making sure all the brass is prepped and as close to the same dimensionally. I uniform the primer pockets, the flash holes as well as length. The tools to make sure the brass is uniform is less than the cost of 1K of primers so it isn't out of reach of most people who reload. The reason I reload isn't to save money although it does allow me to shoot more. The biggest reason was for the quality, my 30 cent bullets would cost me twice as much if I had to buy similar quality.

Dolomite

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't know about Wolf's quality control in all their primers, but I will say

I have had a bunch of failures with their large pistol and will never use

them again. It may be completely different in their other components and

my only experience is reloading .45acp. I'll stick to CCI or Winchester.

I usually use CCI primers unless I'm desperate for primers.

[kb4ns]

I've never tried Wolf primers. I have found that CCI & Remington work the best with the primer system on my press. For some reason the Winchester small primers don't wanna act right. The large pistol have worked fine.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Awhile ago noticed some kaboom webforum threads related to Dillon presses. A few cases where a primer got crushed and set off a primer tube. Didn't see any reports of injuries. Just soiled underwear and having to send the press back for free re-work at Dillon. The primer tube is essentially built like an open gun barrel, so if it goes off it just blasts straight up rather than out toward the operator. The instances didn't set off the powder, just the primer stack.

The most likely presses for this rare condition seemed to be RL550 and 650. It seemed to be CCI primer related, but perhaps only because CCI primers are used a lot and it is a rare problem. I personally suspect these people might have been working the press too fast and aggressive, but it is only unfounded personal suspicion. I seat primers real gentle and slow, and if it doesn't feel right I back off and discard the round.

However, due to the limited info, it seemed a good idea to avoid CCI primers in a Dillon press, if nothing else just pure superstition.

Federal primers have reputation of being fairly sensitive, so it would maybe be more likely to avoid fail-to-fire from light firing pin strikes. Haven't had any trouble from Federal primers but I work slow and cautious. They always seem to go bang.

For all I know Federal primers might be the worst product on the market. Dunno. I'd hate to use a bunch of different primer brands and work up loads from minimum data for each different brand of primer.

[frankmako]

hardness of the primer cup material is all i have seen,,, but i just picked up a bunch of wolf primers. it will be the first time that i have used them. time will tell.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

I use nothing but Wolf primers, small and large rifle.. never had a failure. My rifles hold verticle dispersion of 8" at 1000 yards.

[dlm37015]

the reason for the increas in speed is in this case going to a magnum primer varget is a very slow powder for a 223 .

varget is 4064 cut short so with the magnum primer it was able to light a little more powder instead of shooting it out the barrel.

the thing i dont like about wolf primers is pressure when using wolf primers in a 308 same load 4064 powder pressure is about 10 percent more

i have a pressure gun so i am able to check this out not saying anything bad about wolf primers but also the weight of them varies alot

a few years handloader mag. did a 60000 round test on primers and found that there wasnt much diffrence in them